LSRPCA DE at TWS 13-14Sept08
09-07-2008, 01:22 AM
#137
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm sure I'll have to do some serious PCCB'ing when I come into turn 1...is the proper technique to slow a bit on the banking and then scoot through the turn or come down to flat part then brake? I remember VR talking about this before but I can't remember specifics.
Use the Force Luke...
09-07-2008, 11:40 AM
#139
Rennlist Member
Heads up, went to watch the CVAR guys yesterday. Gas at the track is 4.50 for 93 octane, if you want higher octane you had better bring your first born. TWS must not have seen the decline in prices yet.
09-07-2008, 11:48 AM
#140
Rennlist Member
Perfect.
You've got a tight schedule; thanks for making it work.
C.J., if you're starting out in yellow in the RS, then be sure to keep your eyes focused WAY down to T2 as soon as you're on the front straight. By the time you get to T1, your close rate is going to be way higher than what you're used to at MSR, and the rest of our asses are going to be filling your windshield at T2 as though we shifted into reverse!
You've got a tight schedule; thanks for making it work.
C.J., if you're starting out in yellow in the RS, then be sure to keep your eyes focused WAY down to T2 as soon as you're on the front straight. By the time you get to T1, your close rate is going to be way higher than what you're used to at MSR, and the rest of our asses are going to be filling your windshield at T2 as though we shifted into reverse!
09-07-2008, 11:50 AM
#141
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm sure I'll have to do some serious PCCB'ing when I come into turn 1...is the proper technique to slow a bit on the banking and then scoot through the turn or come down to flat part then brake? I remember VR talking about this before but I can't remember specifics.
In YOUR car? Ha! Better let a professional answer that one! I once stood at the end of the stands at T1 during a red group run and noticed that most of the GT3's and a GT3RS took the high line. But you will see both techniques (and more).
The line that I like is to be no higher than half-way up the banking as I'm crossing in front of the pits, and then drift upwards to set up a turn in from fairly high up. Then I tap the brakes (because I'm a chicken ****, I really shouldn't have to) and turn in. I point the car directly at the T2 turn in point, using maintenance throttle until I'm off the banking. If everything worked as planned, then I'm going in a straight line, hard on the brakes, clip the inside of the turn on my left side, down shift from 5 to 4; 4 to 3, then maintenance throttle before T2 turn in, and then 100% throttle throughout the rest of T2 until T3 braking.
Here's a short video with just the T1 - T3 sequences, illustrating different lines and braking zones...
http://www.vimeo.com/1682168
1) watch the black 996 that passes on my left down the straight. He stays low. I lifted to give he and I room around the traffic, but once we were clear, I made up lost ground. By going high? perhaps not, but note my closing speed prior to T2 turn-in. This is where you will need to anticipate the slower cars. A turbo almost clobbered me from behind last time for the same reason.
2) just a crowd going thru T1, so it gives you an idea of the variety of lines people take. Of course once their independent streak is over, they all fell back in line, and each just followed the car in front of them (missing the T2 apex, braking too late for T3, and missing the T3 apex as group!
). 3) mglobe's line. He stays medium-low (but not as low as the black 996 in the 1st sequence). Note that his line is more smooth than mine, and he doesn't have to come off the hard brakes to be on the throttle thru T2.
4) my line from mglobe's camera. I'm in front of him, and you can see how I'm actually cutting right-to-left across his path in the transition, and carrying more speed (he stays low, I'm coming from higher up on the banking). Of course I haven't perfected the 5-to-4-to-3 downshift while threshold braking, so I usually lose momentum, and I'm slower than mglobe by the time we get to T2 turn in.
5) another example of what I was alerting you to regarding slower cars in front of you (like I will be). mglobe and I close in on a Miata, but too late to make a pass before T1 (note the late point-by given; the driver obviously noticed us closing quickly). As a result, we had to alter our braking and lines thru the transition.
You will probably face this last situation on every lap while in yellow (the video is from a yellow session, so imagine you in the GT3RS closing in on me at the same rate that we're were closing in on the Miata, and you get an idea of how important it is to look all the way out thru T2 while you're still on the straight. I can't recall if you can see T2 if you are low on the banking, but you can actually see a lot more than just T2 from the high line.
So that's just context... VR needs to help you with the best way to approach it in that monster machine.
09-07-2008, 11:51 AM
#142
Rennlist Member
I'm sure I'll have to do some serious PCCB'ing when I come into turn 1...is the proper technique to slow a bit on the banking and then scoot through the turn or come down to flat part then brake? I remember VR talking about this before but I can't remember specifics.
As you build up speed down the main straight, some folks will scrub off some speed before turning down off the banking, then back to gas until the flat. Others will maintain throttle all the way to the flat (which is what I do, but my car is way slower in top speed than yours). We'll see where your comfort level lies.
09-07-2008, 11:57 AM
#143
Rennlist Member
In YOUR car? Ha! Better let a professional answer that one! I once stood at the end of the stands at T1 during a red group run and noticed that most of the GT3's and a GT3RS took the high line. But you will see both techniques (and more).
The line that I like is to be no higher than half-way up the banking as I'm crossing in front of the pits, and then drift upwards to set up a turn in from fairly high up. Then I tap the brakes (because I'm a chicken ****, I really shouldn't have to) and turn in. I point the car directly at the T2 turn in point, using maintenance throttle until I'm off the banking. If everything worked as planned, then I'm going in a straight line, hard on the brakes, clip the inside of the turn on my left side, down shift from 5 to 4; 4 to 3, then maintenance throttle before T2 turn in, and then 100% throttle throughout the rest of T2 until T3 braking.
Here's a short video with just the T1 - T3 sequences, illustrating different lines and braking zones...
http://www.vimeo.com/1682168
1) watch the black 996 that passes on my left down the straight. He stays low. I lifted to give he and I room around the traffic, but once we were clear, I made up lost ground. By going high? perhaps not, but note my closing speed prior to T2 turn-in. This is where you will need to anticipate the slower cars. A turbo almost clobbered me from behind last time for the same reason.
2) just a crowd going thru T1, so it gives you an idea of the variety of lines people take. Of course once their independent streak is over, they all fell back in line, and each just followed the car in front of them (missing the T2 apex, braking too late for T3, and missing the T3 apex as group!).
3) mglobe's line. He stays medium-low (but not as low as the black 996 in the 1st sequence). Note that his line is more smooth than mine, and he doesn't have to come off the hard brakes to be on the throttle thru T2.
4) my line from mglobe's camera. I'm in front of him, and you can see how I'm actually cutting right-to-left across his path in the transition, and carrying more speed (he stays low, I'm coming from higher up on the banking). Of course I haven't perfected the 5-to-4-to-3 downshift while threshold braking, so I usually lose momentum, and I'm slower than mglobe by the time we get to T2 turn in.
5) another example of what I was alerting you to regarding slower cars in front of you (like I will be). mglobe and I close in on a Miata, but too late to make a pass before T1 (note the late point-by given; the driver obviously noticed us closing quickly). As a result, we had to alter our braking and lines thru the transition.
You will probably face this last situation on every lap while in yellow (the video is from a yellow session, so imagine you in the GT3RS closing in on me at the same rate that we're were closing in on the Miata, and you get an idea of how important it is to look all the way out thru T2 while you're still on the straight. I can't recall if you can see T2 if you are low on the banking, but you can actually see a lot more than just T2 from the high line.
So that's just context... VR needs to help you with the best way to approach it in that monster machine.
The line that I like is to be no higher than half-way up the banking as I'm crossing in front of the pits, and then drift upwards to set up a turn in from fairly high up. Then I tap the brakes (because I'm a chicken ****, I really shouldn't have to) and turn in. I point the car directly at the T2 turn in point, using maintenance throttle until I'm off the banking. If everything worked as planned, then I'm going in a straight line, hard on the brakes, clip the inside of the turn on my left side, down shift from 5 to 4; 4 to 3, then maintenance throttle before T2 turn in, and then 100% throttle throughout the rest of T2 until T3 braking.
Here's a short video with just the T1 - T3 sequences, illustrating different lines and braking zones...
http://www.vimeo.com/1682168
1) watch the black 996 that passes on my left down the straight. He stays low. I lifted to give he and I room around the traffic, but once we were clear, I made up lost ground. By going high? perhaps not, but note my closing speed prior to T2 turn-in. This is where you will need to anticipate the slower cars. A turbo almost clobbered me from behind last time for the same reason.
2) just a crowd going thru T1, so it gives you an idea of the variety of lines people take. Of course once their independent streak is over, they all fell back in line, and each just followed the car in front of them (missing the T2 apex, braking too late for T3, and missing the T3 apex as group!
). 3) mglobe's line. He stays medium-low (but not as low as the black 996 in the 1st sequence). Note that his line is more smooth than mine, and he doesn't have to come off the hard brakes to be on the throttle thru T2.
4) my line from mglobe's camera. I'm in front of him, and you can see how I'm actually cutting right-to-left across his path in the transition, and carrying more speed (he stays low, I'm coming from higher up on the banking). Of course I haven't perfected the 5-to-4-to-3 downshift while threshold braking, so I usually lose momentum, and I'm slower than mglobe by the time we get to T2 turn in.
5) another example of what I was alerting you to regarding slower cars in front of you (like I will be). mglobe and I close in on a Miata, but too late to make a pass before T1 (note the late point-by given; the driver obviously noticed us closing quickly). As a result, we had to alter our braking and lines thru the transition.
You will probably face this last situation on every lap while in yellow (the video is from a yellow session, so imagine you in the GT3RS closing in on me at the same rate that we're were closing in on the Miata, and you get an idea of how important it is to look all the way out thru T2 while you're still on the straight. I can't recall if you can see T2 if you are low on the banking, but you can actually see a lot more than just T2 from the high line.
So that's just context... VR needs to help you with the best way to approach it in that monster machine.
When you ride with me, you'll see me do all of these (since my car is so loud inside, we won't be able to communicate). With my current set-up, I am a lot faster coming in high, soft transition, and a big broad arc thru 1 into 2. With my previous (Koni SA) suspension, the lower line worked a lot better.
09-07-2008, 12:05 PM
#144
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Great compilation Russell. You are the Official TWS Videographer. 
There's a gazillion ways through T1-T2. I like the mid-low line because the transition is easier & doesn't upset the car, but then you have more rotation to deal with before turn-in for T2. The higher line gives you better sight lines and less rotation, but the transition can be tough if you hit the wrong spot. I don't tap on the straight, but i will back off from WOT before I go down the banking.
As Russell pointed out earlier its a place where closing speeds can be an issue. If you get a slower car in front of you, you can make up huge amounts of ground between turn in on T1 and turn in for T2. I leave a lot of extra space if I have someone in front of me. I'll back off the throttle on the main straight just to give that extra space so I don't ride up on someone coming into T2. It's a spot where you really have to manage traffic carefully imho.
There's a gazillion ways through T1-T2. I like the mid-low line because the transition is easier & doesn't upset the car, but then you have more rotation to deal with before turn-in for T2. The higher line gives you better sight lines and less rotation, but the transition can be tough if you hit the wrong spot. I don't tap on the straight, but i will back off from WOT before I go down the banking.
As Russell pointed out earlier its a place where closing speeds can be an issue. If you get a slower car in front of you, you can make up huge amounts of ground between turn in on T1 and turn in for T2. I leave a lot of extra space if I have someone in front of me. I'll back off the throttle on the main straight just to give that extra space so I don't ride up on someone coming into T2. It's a spot where you really have to manage traffic carefully imho.
09-07-2008, 12:30 PM
#145
Rennlist Member
This is also the point of track entry from the pits. That is another place you will need to keep an eye coming down the main straight is pit lane. There is normally a marshal here but I have rarely witnessed him hold up a car coming out of the pit. Most of the time it is not an issue as both drivers stay on there side of the merge line, but .....
I am in mglobe's camp about the low line. Depending on how low your car is or how much give your suspension has you can bottom out going across the transition as is evidenced by all of the scrape marks on the track. Cars will bunch between T1 and T2, so be ware. One of the more important turns is T6 and if you get that one right.
I am in mglobe's camp about the low line. Depending on how low your car is or how much give your suspension has you can bottom out going across the transition as is evidenced by all of the scrape marks on the track. Cars will bunch between T1 and T2, so be ware. One of the more important turns is T6 and if you get that one right
.
09-07-2008, 12:33 PM
#146
Rennlist Member
This is also the point of track entry from the pits. That is another place you will need to keep an eye coming down the main straight is pit lane. There is normally a marshal here but I have rarely witnessed him hold up a car coming out of the pit. Most of the time it is not an issue as both drivers stay on there side of the merge line, but .....
I am in mglobe's camp about the low line. Depending on how low your car is or how much give your suspension has you can bottom out going across the transition as is evidenced by all of the scrape marks on the track. Cars will bunch between T1 and T2, so be ware. One of the more important turns is T6 and if you get that one right.
I am in mglobe's camp about the low line. Depending on how low your car is or how much give your suspension has you can bottom out going across the transition as is evidenced by all of the scrape marks on the track. Cars will bunch between T1 and T2, so be ware. One of the more important turns is T6 and if you get that one right
.The scrape marks are evidence that a lot of people transition in the wrong place. It is much smoother where there are no marks.
09-07-2008, 01:23 PM
#147
I prefer the low line for my car, but really, one has to be proficient at all of them to stay clear of cars pitting out and other traffic. A lot of times you get a late pass on the front straight and you just have to make do with where you are. Here's a T1 line comparison video that I put together for myself last year that shows some of the different approaches.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=45DL9O_W4PU
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=45DL9O_W4PU
09-07-2008, 01:30 PM
#149
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You ain't seen nuthin yet!
As with HSDE's, the right equipment helps... I modified my camera mount to support a 2nd video cam.
With one facing forwards and one facing backwards, I'll be able to film C.J. and VR in CJ's car - going both ways!
Quick and dirty proof of concept: http://www.vimeo.com/1684218
As with HSDE's, the right equipment helps... I modified my camera mount to support a 2nd video cam.
With one facing forwards and one facing backwards, I'll be able to film C.J. and VR in CJ's car - going both ways!
Quick and dirty proof of concept: http://www.vimeo.com/1684218
