Shuffle stearing in racing and DE
#76
Rennlist Member
That's what I call shuffle. Moving your hands, but not crossing them. The right way to do it is just as you describe.
#77
King of Cool
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...okay fine I cave....here's a video, we need to tell this guy to shuffle his hands and not hook his thumbs on the wheel, doubt he knows what he's doing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkZ...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkZ...eature=related
#78
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Do me a favor and watch any onboard of any self respecting professional driver, and I will GUARANTEE you that their thumbs will be hooked. I'm not even going post any video's since any video of a professional racer will have their thumbs hooked, I'll take the word and skills of prof. racers any day. It may keep you from breaking your thumbs???? but if your thumbs are hooked theres probably a far better chance you won't hit the wall......
okay fine I cave....here's a video, we need to tell this guy to shuffle his hands and not hook his thumbs on the wheel, doubt he knows what he's doing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkZ...eature=related
okay fine I cave....here's a video, we need to tell this guy to shuffle his hands and not hook his thumbs on the wheel, doubt he knows what he's doing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkZ...eature=related
So Clark did not shuffle steer. One video of a champion must set the rule. So how do you account for he earlier video of Senna who did a lot of shuffle steering in the video? I don't say your position is wrong for everyone, rather I say that your position is just one of many approaches that seem to work well for drivers at every skill level.
#79
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Do me a favor and watch any onboard of any self respecting professional driver, and I will GUARANTEE you that their thumbs will be hooked. I'm not even going post any video's since any video of a professional racer will have their thumbs hooked, I'll take the word and skills of prof. racers any day. It may keep you from breaking your thumbs???? but if your thumbs are hooked theres probably a far better chance you won't hit the wall......
okay fine I cave....here's a video, we need to tell this guy to shuffle his hands and not hook his thumbs on the wheel, doubt he knows what he's doing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkZ...eature=related
okay fine I cave....here's a video, we need to tell this guy to shuffle his hands and not hook his thumbs on the wheel, doubt he knows what he's doing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkZ...eature=related
I think you need to stop thinking in absolutes.
Sunday has possibly more miles on track than you have on the street. He speaks the truth about this.
I've heard from a number of SRF guys similar stuff about thumbs in their car. FWIW I drove a 240Z once that took two big bloody gashes out of my thumbs before I stopped hooking my thumbs with it. Not all cars are created equal some require odd techniques to get around the course.
#80
King of Cool
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Unlike you, I don't think there is one, and only one way to drive. You can always find some evidence to support a particular style. I am not advocating that anyone else take on my style, but it seems silly to think that you cannot control the wheel with your thump up but can only do so with your thumb wrapped. I agree that most pros wrap their thumbs, but some do not. I have had in-car coaching from some (and not someone who paid for a ride but some who were paid to race at the VERY highest levels) - they are not unanimous on either thumb position nor some shuffle steering.
So Clark did not shuffle steer. One video of a champion must set the rule. So how do you account for he earlier video of Senna who did a lot of shuffle steering in the video? I don't say your position is wrong for everyone, rather I say that your position is just one of many approaches that seem to work well for drivers at every skill level.
So Clark did not shuffle steer. One video of a champion must set the rule. So how do you account for he earlier video of Senna who did a lot of shuffle steering in the video? I don't say your position is wrong for everyone, rather I say that your position is just one of many approaches that seem to work well for drivers at every skill level.
I think mtosi was commenting (I know I did) against the advice some give AGAINST locking thumbs or advocating shuffle steering.
I agree with you, there are many ways to drive but I disagree with those people who say you should not lock your thimbs or you should shuffle steer. There's plenty of top drivers in highest level (i.e. F1, FIA LMS, ALMS) who lock their thmbs and do not shuffle (unless it's necessary in those situations such as Lowes corner in Monaco etc.) and I think that is the right "principle" to follow. There will always be peole who do things differnetly and it works for them but that is not the way to teach.
I used to write indivudual letters (A, B & Cs) from bottom to the top and it was fine but they don't teach people in schools to write that way because it actually is better to write individual letters from top to bottom.
I don't know about others but that's my point when I'm talking about shuffle steering or the thumb lock that we now talked about.
Last edited by Flying Finn; 05-09-2008 at 05:18 PM.
#81
Unlike you, I don't think there is one, and only one way to drive. You can always find some evidence to support a particular style. I am not advocating that anyone else take on my style, but it seems silly to think that you cannot control the wheel with your thump up but can only do so with your thumb wrapped. I agree that most pros wrap their thumbs, but some do not. I have had in-car coaching from some (and not someone who paid for a ride but some who were paid to race at the VERY highest levels) - they are not unanimous on either thumb position nor some shuffle steering.
So Clark did not shuffle steer. One video of a champion must set the rule. So how do you account for he earlier video of Senna who did a lot of shuffle steering in the video? I don't say your position is wrong for everyone, rather I say that your position is just one of many approaches that seem to work well for drivers at every skill level.
So Clark did not shuffle steer. One video of a champion must set the rule. So how do you account for he earlier video of Senna who did a lot of shuffle steering in the video? I don't say your position is wrong for everyone, rather I say that your position is just one of many approaches that seem to work well for drivers at every skill level.
Not to start dropping, I know this guy who knew a guy, but my old man instructed for skip barber for fifteen years, won four prof. 24 hour races including one for Porsche and pretty unanimously any decent person he ever raced or taught with including guys like david hobbs, dorsey schroeder, skip barber and many others would pretty conclusivly say keep your thumbs hooked on the spokes, keep your hands at ten and two, and it will work for 95% of all your driving.
Am I going to tell you your wrong.....of course not....to each his own, your car, you can go how fast you want to go and drive anyway you want to. But I get sick of people making excuses for bad habits like shuffling hands, then in turn telling rookies, or people new to the sport its okay, or thats the way it should be done. If you want to shuffle because you feel like its a better way to drive thats fine, I respect that. However new people should be taught the proper way to do things, so they don't end up with bad habits. If a new driver can be taught to.....
Holds his hands at 10 and 2 or 9 and 3 and not shuffle
Hooks their thumbs on the steering wheel
Matches on downshifts (H/T)
Be precise and not miss apex's
and be smooth
They are doing better than 75% of amatuer racers/drivers
#84
NASA Racer
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Except when they completely let it go and it freely spins like Senna does
#85
Rennlist Member
I know you know how to handle a 4 wheeled vehicle, and many a folk can spin a great lap time while shuffle steering, but i cant telll you of the amount of incar footage ive seen where things have gone wrong, and that "position" of the hands contributed to the accident, or loss of control.
There is no reason to shuffle steer, unless you are in the paddock or on the street, where the turns are slow and you need that amount of steering input.
on the track, its better to let go with one hand to at least continue with the proper aligned position of your hands in respect to the wheel (2-10clock)
mk
There is no reason to shuffle steer, unless you are in the paddock or on the street, where the turns are slow and you need that amount of steering input.
on the track, its better to let go with one hand to at least continue with the proper aligned position of your hands in respect to the wheel (2-10clock)
mk
Shuffle steer and correcting grip is not the same in my book. For some turns it makes sense to change to a position that lets me not cross the arms. Once after trackout the hands are returned or moved to a new position suitable for the next turn. It's really no work since the steerin wheel returns if the alignment is correct and. Just ease the grip and re-grip when it is in place.
Danger of shuffle steer is that you might have the steering wheel positioned otherwise than you think.
I had an interesting off a couple of years ago on a ice track (plowed lake) where I had corrected a major slide with some serious steering maneuvers. Once the car started going somewhat straight and gripped it was made very clear that the steering wheel was a full 360 degrees off and I plowed a new route surfing over the snow.
Danger of shuffle steer is that you might have the steering wheel positioned otherwise than you think.
I had an interesting off a couple of years ago on a ice track (plowed lake) where I had corrected a major slide with some serious steering maneuvers. Once the car started going somewhat straight and gripped it was made very clear that the steering wheel was a full 360 degrees off and I plowed a new route surfing over the snow.
#88
Rennlist Member
thats shuffle steering, and he can get away with it, and it only happend once. AND, that wasnt the fastest time around the track in that car. I bet if he got suited up, and there was money involved, that mistake wouldnt be there, as with many during that "fun" lap. got to love the lofers
mk
mk
I wonder what Senna would say?
Start watching at the :50 mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8-zbfdPfRg
moving hands??? shuffle steering??
Start watching at the :50 mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8-zbfdPfRg
moving hands??? shuffle steering??