Why aren't there more ladies......
03-03-2008, 10:53 PM
#61
The Penguin King
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03-03-2008, 11:01 PM
#62
Track Day
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Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there are women everywhere at our Texas DEs. Oh wait! That is my wife that is always around me!
I know that I am very lucky. In December of 2004, my wife sat at the concession stand at TWS reading a Cosmo or something pouting that I was driving and she was not. I was in her new Boxster. Since then we have both been driving at DEs. We have gone from the Boxster and a 1988 944s, to a 1995 C4 and the 1988 944s, and finally to a race prepped 1988 944 Turbo (the C4 is now retired from the track). We now share the turbo since she is Yellow and I am Blue Solo. She is truly obsessed with the track. In day to day life, she is always really stylish and "put together". I find it very entertaining to see her crawl over the roll cage getting out of our white and primered car with some "road rash" on several fenders. Her smile normally is beaming at this point unless it is one of the few times she has come in with 4 flat-spotted tires!
There have been two weekends that we have both been signed up for DEs that for some reason I had to back out. Guess what...she went without me. It did not surprise me, but it surprised the hell out of our mechanic...at least the first time. All of her friends think she is nuts and believe it to be "Racing". It gets too tiring trying to explain what a DE is to everyone we know.
I have to say that there have been some very supportive women instructors and drivers in the Texas regions that have made her feel quite at home at the track.
I am probably the luckiest man that enters TWS, Motorsport Ranch or Eagles Canyon because my wife comes with me... but to drive not watch!
I know that I am very lucky. In December of 2004, my wife sat at the concession stand at TWS reading a Cosmo or something pouting that I was driving and she was not. I was in her new Boxster. Since then we have both been driving at DEs. We have gone from the Boxster and a 1988 944s, to a 1995 C4 and the 1988 944s, and finally to a race prepped 1988 944 Turbo (the C4 is now retired from the track). We now share the turbo since she is Yellow and I am Blue Solo. She is truly obsessed with the track. In day to day life, she is always really stylish and "put together". I find it very entertaining to see her crawl over the roll cage getting out of our white and primered car with some "road rash" on several fenders. Her smile normally is beaming at this point unless it is one of the few times she has come in with 4 flat-spotted tires!
There have been two weekends that we have both been signed up for DEs that for some reason I had to back out. Guess what...she went without me. It did not surprise me, but it surprised the hell out of our mechanic...at least the first time. All of her friends think she is nuts and believe it to be "Racing". It gets too tiring trying to explain what a DE is to everyone we know.
I have to say that there have been some very supportive women instructors and drivers in the Texas regions that have made her feel quite at home at the track.
I am probably the luckiest man that enters TWS, Motorsport Ranch or Eagles Canyon because my wife comes with me... but to drive not watch!
03-04-2008, 12:08 AM
#64
Burning Brakes
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I had another thought about why there aren't more ladies.
Like with any sport, DE has its own language. When you first come to the track and you hear this babble, it can be very confusing, especially if you're doing this to be a supportive spouse/GF and it hasn't been your lifelong passion.
All of a sudden people are using words like "apex" and "braking point." An instructor is telling you that your hands are on the wheel wrong and that you can't brake in a turn and to go faster. If you don't generally drive a manual gear car, you're worried that you're either going to really crunch the gears or else you're going to stall in pit lane and everyone will laugh at you.
Like with any sport, DE has its own language. When you first come to the track and you hear this babble, it can be very confusing, especially if you're doing this to be a supportive spouse/GF and it hasn't been your lifelong passion.
All of a sudden people are using words like "apex" and "braking point." An instructor is telling you that your hands are on the wheel wrong and that you can't brake in a turn and to go faster. If you don't generally drive a manual gear car, you're worried that you're either going to really crunch the gears or else you're going to stall in pit lane and everyone will laugh at you.
My wife at her first DE got an instructor spewing that kind of gibberish. That was a waste of both of theirs time. On other two DEs her instructor taught to her level of knowledge and experience and it went much better. She enjoyed it a lot and learned a great deal.
03-04-2008, 12:13 AM
#65
Burning Brakes
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Just do your thing and pretend not to pay much attention to them. They will run after you like you are the last man on earth.
03-04-2008, 12:47 AM
#66
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A couple points from my perspective.........
My wife absolutely loves the track....both as a spectator and as a driver. I just recently got her to stop tracking the CAB and track the GT3. She got a little "drunk" on the HP and promptly had an off. She said she KNEW she was going off but she just couldn't keep her foot off the throttle!
Anyway, back to my points. It is ABSOLUTELY crucial to make sure that their first impression is a good one. If they get a bad instructor, then it is not going to end well and chances are the interest in the sport is dead. My very FIRST instructor was a female when I was starting my DE career back in Las Vegas. Since then I have had many instructors both as a beginner in the early days and today (almost 5 years later) other advacned instructors like myself that go out with me frequently and I can honestly say my 2 best instructor EVER were BOTH female. Of course, my favorite just happens to be the "better half" of the ZAP Car (Margo)
We met Margo and Arnie when we first moved back to this area and hit VIR for the first time. I was given Margo as my first instructor and she immediately knew my skill level and knew exactly how to driver coach me. As soon as I told her that I implicitly trusted her and that I would take ANY and ALL criticism to me she cut loose and really helped me get to where I am. Her husband (Arnie) also spends alot of time in my right seat. Between the two of them both my wife's skill and mine has stayed sharp.
There is nothing greater than watching my wife on the track pass guys at will and have drivers come up to me and say "damn, you were flying out there" for me to say......"sorry, that was my wife that passed you"
If you can just convince you significant other to at least try the track once and do it with a region/event/etc that really spends the right amount of time in the classroom FIRST and then eases intothe track with parade style laps for the first session or two before passing is open up you'dbe surprised what the outcome is. It's the regions that get them out there immediately and then get the double whammy with an instructor that really doesn't "get it" to leave a sour taste and then you are done.
I happen to be very lucky that my wife not only supports my addiction to the track by enjoys being there and social atmosphere that really is what keeps us coming back......to see all of our track pals!
I couldn't imagine my wife not being at the track with me. Yes, I know, I am a very lucky guy.
My wife absolutely loves the track....both as a spectator and as a driver. I just recently got her to stop tracking the CAB and track the GT3. She got a little "drunk" on the HP and promptly had an off. She said she KNEW she was going off but she just couldn't keep her foot off the throttle!
Anyway, back to my points. It is ABSOLUTELY crucial to make sure that their first impression is a good one. If they get a bad instructor, then it is not going to end well and chances are the interest in the sport is dead. My very FIRST instructor was a female when I was starting my DE career back in Las Vegas. Since then I have had many instructors both as a beginner in the early days and today (almost 5 years later) other advacned instructors like myself that go out with me frequently and I can honestly say my 2 best instructor EVER were BOTH female. Of course, my favorite just happens to be the "better half" of the ZAP Car (Margo)
We met Margo and Arnie when we first moved back to this area and hit VIR for the first time. I was given Margo as my first instructor and she immediately knew my skill level and knew exactly how to driver coach me. As soon as I told her that I implicitly trusted her and that I would take ANY and ALL criticism to me she cut loose and really helped me get to where I am. Her husband (Arnie) also spends alot of time in my right seat. Between the two of them both my wife's skill and mine has stayed sharp.
There is nothing greater than watching my wife on the track pass guys at will and have drivers come up to me and say "damn, you were flying out there" for me to say......"sorry, that was my wife that passed you"
If you can just convince you significant other to at least try the track once and do it with a region/event/etc that really spends the right amount of time in the classroom FIRST and then eases intothe track with parade style laps for the first session or two before passing is open up you'dbe surprised what the outcome is. It's the regions that get them out there immediately and then get the double whammy with an instructor that really doesn't "get it" to leave a sour taste and then you are done.
I happen to be very lucky that my wife not only supports my addiction to the track by enjoys being there and social atmosphere that really is what keeps us coming back......to see all of our track pals!
I couldn't imagine my wife not being at the track with me. Yes, I know, I am a very lucky guy.
Tell your wife to take it easy on us VIR noobs.
I'm trying to get my wife into it. She promised to do an Auto-X this year and she's VERY competitive so I bet it will grow from there. She is learning the terms and will use them at the most inadvertant moments and crack me up. We'll be riding along and she'll be like "did you just heel toe and apex", and I would have done just that, but never knew that she had been paying attention to know what it was.
She also drives fast, but doesnt want to go unless she's has something where she can win, so I'll have to calm her down to a learning pace first. She also doesnt like to sweat, well, at least not in the car, well, at least.......nevermind. She likes keeping her hair pretty if you know what I mean so getting in a car and wearing the helmet while driving is going to be the biggest challenge (boy that didnt come out right).
03-04-2008, 10:32 AM
#67
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Sure Chris, why not yoga? ...Garth did. I realize he's not the same size as you, but he's still a guy. And, since you're Canadian, you might also consider passing time in the winter by taking up curling -- social mixed league. I know your summers are too busy for anything other than the track.
03-04-2008, 12:14 PM
#68
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Lower yur standards. "Older" women are way cooler. They are experienced enough to admit that woman are just as big a pigs as the guys, and they actually find male honesty regarding that fact to be endearing. They are far more likely to accept us for what we are... whatever that may be. They are more independant and are far less labor intensive. Shall I continue?
Matter of fact, I've just described RAISING your standards!
03-04-2008, 12:50 PM
#69
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My wife and I did 38 days of DE events last year, including Lime Rock, Mont Tremblant and Watkins Glen. We bring our kids (presently 9, 10 and 13) to the track. This year we sold our 993 and bought a GT3 and it was her idea. We share the car and as long as we can stay in separate run groups we will continue to do so.
I couldn't be happier.
I couldn't be happier.
03-04-2008, 02:26 PM
#70
Race Director
Ha!
Lower yur standards. "Older" women are way cooler. They are experienced enough to admit that woman are just as big a pigs as the guys, and they actually find male honesty regarding that fact to be endearing. They are far more likely to accept us for what we are... whatever that may be. They are more independant and are far less labor intensive. Shall I continue?
Matter of fact, I've just described RAISING your standards!
Lower yur standards. "Older" women are way cooler. They are experienced enough to admit that woman are just as big a pigs as the guys, and they actually find male honesty regarding that fact to be endearing. They are far more likely to accept us for what we are... whatever that may be. They are more independant and are far less labor intensive. Shall I continue?
Matter of fact, I've just described RAISING your standards!
03-04-2008, 02:28 PM
#71
Race Director
Sure Chris, why not yoga? ...Garth did. I realize he's not the same size as you, but he's still a guy. And, since you're Canadian, you might also consider passing time in the winter by taking up curling -- social mixed league. I know your summers are too busy for anything other than the track.
I've been out of skiing and hockey since Feb. 9 when i dislocated my shoulder. Still going to physio strengthening it. I think yoga would help.
Plus the women...
03-04-2008, 03:25 PM
#72
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03-04-2008, 04:26 PM
#73
Still plays with cars.
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When Arnie saw this thread, he thought I would be the better one to respond. In case you don't know, I have been an instructor with PCA, Chin, and other groups for a number of years now. I have also mentored for PCA's national instructor program.
OK, so why aren't there more women involved? Women certainly have the ability to be just as good drivers as men. After all, this is a sport of intelligence, technique, consistency, patience, and finesse, not one of brute strength. I hear some women say they are intimidated by the attitude of some men out on the track. They hear stories of crashes, inappropriate track behavior, lack of patience, and poor judgement.
Hey, guys, why would women want to get involved in this sport when they see instructors crash the first lap out in the first session of the first day of an event. These are the instructors that might get into the car with them as their instructor! Not exactly a confidence builder!
That said, it has been a personal mission of mine to get more women involved. Sometimes, it has taken several years before I persuade a woman to take the plunge; at other times, I succeed pretty quickly. I have seen a pained expression on the face of more than one man when I suggest that his wife or girlfriend might like to get involved and drive his precious car! I kept after one such man, and he finally was shamed into "letting" his wife drive. She had a blast, and it is now a sport they really enjoy together.
When I meet a woman who is interested, I suggest that she ask for me as her first instructor. We have already have had fun chatting together, so it makes the whole thing less intimidating.
Arnie and I came to the VIR area from the Northeast Region of PCA where a LOT of women were involved. North Country Region was similar. Both regions were very encouraging to women participants, running classroom introductory programs yearly, pairing women students up with fun instructors who would encourage them, rather than push them before they were ready. Many instructors will tell you that they much prefer women students, as they really want to learn technique and build up the speed through driving better, not wanting to go fast first before they have learned the line, etc.
So, start with your young daughters and bring them to the track as mini-track rats. Let them hand you tools at home in the garage and at the track. Explain things to them. Get them involved. Encourage them. When they get a little older, give them a taste by having them do autocross. Sure, autocross driving is totally different from DE and racing, but it is a good place to learn car control.
For those with an adult lady in their lives, be encouraging and talk to women drivers you know to find out their next event, then get your wife or girlfriend signed up for that event, too. That way, she won't be the only one!
As a couple, it is frankly a lot more fun for Arnie and me to enjoy the sport with other couples — Joyce and Bruce, Kellie and Dell, Coco and Phil, Kristin and Dave, to name just a few. Besides, who wants to have a disgruntled spouse at home who feels left out?
So, if you bring your lady to VIR, look up Arnie and me, and I'll talk to her about just how much fun it is.
TBC/Margo
OK, so why aren't there more women involved? Women certainly have the ability to be just as good drivers as men. After all, this is a sport of intelligence, technique, consistency, patience, and finesse, not one of brute strength. I hear some women say they are intimidated by the attitude of some men out on the track. They hear stories of crashes, inappropriate track behavior, lack of patience, and poor judgement.
Hey, guys, why would women want to get involved in this sport when they see instructors crash the first lap out in the first session of the first day of an event. These are the instructors that might get into the car with them as their instructor! Not exactly a confidence builder!
That said, it has been a personal mission of mine to get more women involved. Sometimes, it has taken several years before I persuade a woman to take the plunge; at other times, I succeed pretty quickly. I have seen a pained expression on the face of more than one man when I suggest that his wife or girlfriend might like to get involved and drive his precious car! I kept after one such man, and he finally was shamed into "letting" his wife drive. She had a blast, and it is now a sport they really enjoy together.
When I meet a woman who is interested, I suggest that she ask for me as her first instructor. We have already have had fun chatting together, so it makes the whole thing less intimidating.
Arnie and I came to the VIR area from the Northeast Region of PCA where a LOT of women were involved. North Country Region was similar. Both regions were very encouraging to women participants, running classroom introductory programs yearly, pairing women students up with fun instructors who would encourage them, rather than push them before they were ready. Many instructors will tell you that they much prefer women students, as they really want to learn technique and build up the speed through driving better, not wanting to go fast first before they have learned the line, etc.
So, start with your young daughters and bring them to the track as mini-track rats. Let them hand you tools at home in the garage and at the track. Explain things to them. Get them involved. Encourage them. When they get a little older, give them a taste by having them do autocross. Sure, autocross driving is totally different from DE and racing, but it is a good place to learn car control.
For those with an adult lady in their lives, be encouraging and talk to women drivers you know to find out their next event, then get your wife or girlfriend signed up for that event, too. That way, she won't be the only one!
As a couple, it is frankly a lot more fun for Arnie and me to enjoy the sport with other couples — Joyce and Bruce, Kellie and Dell, Coco and Phil, Kristin and Dave, to name just a few. Besides, who wants to have a disgruntled spouse at home who feels left out?
So, if you bring your lady to VIR, look up Arnie and me, and I'll talk to her about just how much fun it is.
TBC/Margo
Best,
