Why aren't there more ladies......
03-03-2008, 01:26 PM
#46
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
It seems to me the reasons there are not more women at the track are:
1) Porsches are expensive, and women generally make less $$ than men.
2) less introduction to driving skill as a beginning driver.
3) social acceptability of lesser driver skill as a woman.
4) no introduction to cars as a youth, such as basic maintenance and performance stuff.
5) women gravitate towards safe hobbies, and the track is perceived as dangerous, regardless of reality.
I'm a track junky regardless. I still cannot believe this sort of fun is legal. My dad introduced me to the car world, as he raced and owned a German auto repair. He also gave me his 944 for my junior and senior year in High School. He was always a safe and fast driver, and I learned from his influence. I was his co-pilot, cop spotter, and extra set of eyes. So, here I am!
1) Porsches are expensive, and women generally make less $$ than men.
2) less introduction to driving skill as a beginning driver.
3) social acceptability of lesser driver skill as a woman.
4) no introduction to cars as a youth, such as basic maintenance and performance stuff.
5) women gravitate towards safe hobbies, and the track is perceived as dangerous, regardless of reality.
I'm a track junky regardless. I still cannot believe this sort of fun is legal. My dad introduced me to the car world, as he raced and owned a German auto repair. He also gave me his 944 for my junior and senior year in High School. He was always a safe and fast driver, and I learned from his influence. I was his co-pilot, cop spotter, and extra set of eyes. So, here I am!
03-03-2008, 01:42 PM
#48
Race Car
hey mike, GCR does the tase of track.... took my g/f last year... suncoast may do it too. just need to ask... not sure about citrus (hello Christian? )
Some of my most challenging students were wives of other instructors... They (mostly), enjoyed it, once the overwelming infomation overload settled down a bit. (like mixing blue and green...hint hint... )
I would not mind seeing a 'ladies day' or ladies 'session'... (like A-X sometimes does)
Some of my most challenging students were wives of other instructors... They (mostly), enjoyed it, once the overwelming infomation overload settled down a bit. (like mixing blue and green...hint hint... )
I would not mind seeing a 'ladies day' or ladies 'session'... (like A-X sometimes does)
03-03-2008, 02:30 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
A couple points from my perspective.........
My wife absolutely loves the track....both as a spectator and as a driver. I just recently got her to stop tracking the CAB and track the GT3. She got a little "drunk" on the HP and promptly had an off. She said she KNEW she was going off but she just couldn't keep her foot off the throttle!
Anyway, back to my points. It is ABSOLUTELY crucial to make sure that their first impression is a good one. If they get a bad instructor, then it is not going to end well and chances are the interest in the sport is dead. My very FIRST instructor was a female when I was starting my DE career back in Las Vegas. Since then I have had many instructors both as a beginner in the early days and today (almost 5 years later) other advacned instructors like myself that go out with me frequently and I can honestly say my 2 best instructor EVER were BOTH female. Of course, my favorite just happens to be the "better half" of the ZAP Car (Margo)
We met Margo and Arnie when we first moved back to this area and hit VIR for the first time. I was given Margo as my first instructor and she immediately knew my skill level and knew exactly how to driver coach me. As soon as I told her that I implicitly trusted her and that I would take ANY and ALL criticism to me she cut loose and really helped me get to where I am. Her husband (Arnie) also spends alot of time in my right seat. Between the two of them both my wife's skill and mine has stayed sharp.
There is nothing greater than watching my wife on the track pass guys at will and have drivers come up to me and say "damn, you were flying out there" for me to say......"sorry, that was my wife that passed you"
If you can just convince you significant other to at least try the track once and do it with a region/event/etc that really spends the right amount of time in the classroom FIRST and then eases intothe track with parade style laps for the first session or two before passing is open up you'dbe surprised what the outcome is. It's the regions that get them out there immediately and then get the double whammy with an instructor that really doesn't "get it" to leave a sour taste and then you are done.
I happen to be very lucky that my wife not only supports my addiction to the track by enjoys being there and social atmosphere that really is what keeps us coming back......to see all of our track pals!
I couldn't imagine my wife not being at the track with me. Yes, I know, I am a very lucky guy.
My wife absolutely loves the track....both as a spectator and as a driver. I just recently got her to stop tracking the CAB and track the GT3. She got a little "drunk" on the HP and promptly had an off. She said she KNEW she was going off but she just couldn't keep her foot off the throttle!
Anyway, back to my points. It is ABSOLUTELY crucial to make sure that their first impression is a good one. If they get a bad instructor, then it is not going to end well and chances are the interest in the sport is dead. My very FIRST instructor was a female when I was starting my DE career back in Las Vegas. Since then I have had many instructors both as a beginner in the early days and today (almost 5 years later) other advacned instructors like myself that go out with me frequently and I can honestly say my 2 best instructor EVER were BOTH female. Of course, my favorite just happens to be the "better half" of the ZAP Car (Margo)
We met Margo and Arnie when we first moved back to this area and hit VIR for the first time. I was given Margo as my first instructor and she immediately knew my skill level and knew exactly how to driver coach me. As soon as I told her that I implicitly trusted her and that I would take ANY and ALL criticism to me she cut loose and really helped me get to where I am. Her husband (Arnie) also spends alot of time in my right seat. Between the two of them both my wife's skill and mine has stayed sharp.
There is nothing greater than watching my wife on the track pass guys at will and have drivers come up to me and say "damn, you were flying out there" for me to say......"sorry, that was my wife that passed you"
If you can just convince you significant other to at least try the track once and do it with a region/event/etc that really spends the right amount of time in the classroom FIRST and then eases intothe track with parade style laps for the first session or two before passing is open up you'dbe surprised what the outcome is. It's the regions that get them out there immediately and then get the double whammy with an instructor that really doesn't "get it" to leave a sour taste and then you are done.
I happen to be very lucky that my wife not only supports my addiction to the track by enjoys being there and social atmosphere that really is what keeps us coming back......to see all of our track pals!
I couldn't imagine my wife not being at the track with me. Yes, I know, I am a very lucky guy.
03-03-2008, 02:52 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
Thanks, Dell, for the gracious compliments. 
Arnie and I have both really enjoyed watching you grow as a driver. Too bad there wasn't any natural talent there! 
We always enjoy getting into your car. Can't wait to see Kellie back on the track after Parker's arrival last November. Were you guys at CMP or members' day at VIR this past weekend?
Look forward to paddocking with you two/three at Zone 2's VIR event.
Take care,
TBC/Margo
Arnie and I have both really enjoyed watching you grow as a driver. Too bad there wasn't any natural talent there! We always enjoy getting into your car. Can't wait to see Kellie back on the track after Parker's arrival last November. Were you guys at CMP or members' day at VIR this past weekend?Look forward to paddocking with you two/three at Zone 2's VIR event.
Take care,
TBC/Margo
03-03-2008, 03:05 PM
#51
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: On Rennlist, apparently
Posts: 4,447
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
18 Posts
As former track chairs, we are amazed at the number of people who don't realize that you can run a program for a "taste of track" (or whatever you wish to call it) and let people ride in an instructor's car during a regular session, as long as they sign the waivers. Charge $10 or $20 and donate it to charity or a helmet loaner program, etc.
The critical thing, of course, is that they must sign the waivers. This type of program is more effective if the instructor runs in a lower run group, driving at a more moderate speed that is appropriate for that run group.
TBC/Margo
The critical thing, of course, is that they must sign the waivers. This type of program is more effective if the instructor runs in a lower run group, driving at a more moderate speed that is appropriate for that run group.
TBC/Margo
We (NER) did what I think was our first Taste at Tremblant last summer. I drove in White; young lady riding with me was whooping all the way. Excitement, not fear, I believe.
Anyway - I would strongly suggest running these in groups below White; it was, umm, difficult to slow down.
03-03-2008, 03:39 PM
#52
Nordschleife Master
Thanks, Dell, for the gracious compliments. Arnie and I have both really enjoyed watching you grow as a driver. Too bad there wasn't any natural talent there! We always enjoy getting into your car. Can't wait to see Kellie back on the track after Parker's arrival last November. Were you guys at CMP or members' day at VIR this past weekend?
Look forward to paddocking with you two/three at Zone 2's VIR event.
Take care,
TBC/Margo
Arnie and I have both really enjoyed watching you grow as a driver. Too bad there wasn't any natural talent there! We always enjoy getting into your car. Can't wait to see Kellie back on the track after Parker's arrival last November. Were you guys at CMP or members' day at VIR this past weekend?Look forward to paddocking with you two/three at Zone 2's VIR event.
Take care,
TBC/Margo
See you at Zone2!
03-03-2008, 04:05 PM
#53
Pro
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bluffton, SC
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Today I found a Sweet Sixteen girl in a little Miata - she is all ready to try a DE. She loved the fact she could learn to drive faster than the speed limit and not get a ticket!
03-03-2008, 04:10 PM
#54
Drifting
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas/FortWorth Texas
Posts: 3,438
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
It seems to me the reasons there are not more women at the track are:
1) Porsches are expensive, and women generally make less $$ than men.
2) less introduction to driving skill as a beginning driver.
3) social acceptability of lesser driver skill as a woman.
4) no introduction to cars as a youth, such as basic maintenance and performance stuff.
5) women gravitate towards safe hobbies, and the track is perceived as dangerous, regardless of reality.
I'm a track junky regardless. I still cannot believe this sort of fun is legal. My dad introduced me to the car world, as he raced and owned a German auto repair. He also gave me his 944 for my junior and senior year in High School. He was always a safe and fast driver, and I learned from his influence. I was his co-pilot, cop spotter, and extra set of eyes. So, here I am!
1) Porsches are expensive, and women generally make less $$ than men.
2) less introduction to driving skill as a beginning driver.
3) social acceptability of lesser driver skill as a woman.
4) no introduction to cars as a youth, such as basic maintenance and performance stuff.
5) women gravitate towards safe hobbies, and the track is perceived as dangerous, regardless of reality.
I'm a track junky regardless. I still cannot believe this sort of fun is legal. My dad introduced me to the car world, as he raced and owned a German auto repair. He also gave me his 944 for my junior and senior year in High School. He was always a safe and fast driver, and I learned from his influence. I was his co-pilot, cop spotter, and extra set of eyes. So, here I am!
BTW, speaking of which, it was rainy here this morning so I took the M Coupe to work and made a stop at a large mall parking lot that I knew would be empty so I could do a little wet skidpad practice. Unfortunately, there was a mall cop watching, so, deciding that discretion is the better part of valor, I went on my way quietly...
03-03-2008, 08:34 PM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Several years back, my wife did a DE novice day at Pocono in my still loved, 993 Turbo. She went out for four run groups, got to two rides with instructors and had a thoroughly enjoyable day that she will brag about forever. She now understands why I'm so passionate about Porsche Driving Education, and this allowed me to get a point bye about any hesitance on her part of having me instruct.
03-03-2008, 10:17 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
When a 16 year old boy gets his drivers license, the first thing he does is go out and start overdriving his skill level to see what the car can do. ... Girls, when they get their drivers license have more of a tendency to follow the safety rules and not push the car beyond its limits.
Jim, as some of you may know, is a top trauma neurosurgeon, so sees a lot of head injuries. In answer to my question, he started off with, "Well, it has something to do with the frontal lobe."
"You mean 'One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest'?" I asked.
"Not exactly, but the cautionary element of the human brain resides in part of the frontal lobe. In boys, that element doesn't mature until they are somewhere between 25 and 30, sometimes later. In girls, it matures when they are in their teens."
Jim went on to say that when he puts some of these boys back together, he asks them what they were thinking when they did the dumb what-ever-it-was that caused the injury.
"Uh, I don't know," they usually answer.
"Well, you must have been thinking something!"
Jim persists."Yeah, well, it looked like fun!"
And so, boys and young men go hell bent with little, if any, regard for the possible consequences, while girls are more sensible.
That said, girls can be just as good drivers, perhaps better, because at an earlier age, they are more patient and stay out of trouble.
TBC/Margo
03-03-2008, 10:17 PM
#57
Off-Topic Admin
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Joisey. Fuhgeddaboutit.
Posts: 13,654
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
3 Posts
I had another thought about why there aren't more ladies.
Like with any sport, DE has its own language. When you first come to the track and you hear this babble, it can be very confusing, especially if you're doing this to be a supportive spouse/GF and it hasn't been your lifelong passion.
All of a sudden people are using words like "apex" and "braking point." An instructor is telling you that your hands are on the wheel wrong and that you can't brake in a turn and to go faster. If you don't generally drive a manual gear car, you're worried that you're either going to really crunch the gears or else you're going to stall in pit lane and everyone will laugh at you.
I think there's a lot of fear that everyone is going to laugh at you.
On the plus side, going to the track is a lot of fun. Women don't often realize that they really have the ability to achieve the same results as quickly as men. It's LOADS of fun to pass guys on the track, especially when they get back to the paddock and kick the dirt as their friends taunt them that they got "passed by a girl."
It's also a great place to go and learn new dirty jokes.
Like with any sport, DE has its own language. When you first come to the track and you hear this babble, it can be very confusing, especially if you're doing this to be a supportive spouse/GF and it hasn't been your lifelong passion.
All of a sudden people are using words like "apex" and "braking point." An instructor is telling you that your hands are on the wheel wrong and that you can't brake in a turn and to go faster. If you don't generally drive a manual gear car, you're worried that you're either going to really crunch the gears or else you're going to stall in pit lane and everyone will laugh at you.
I think there's a lot of fear that everyone is going to laugh at you.
On the plus side, going to the track is a lot of fun. Women don't often realize that they really have the ability to achieve the same results as quickly as men. It's LOADS of fun to pass guys on the track, especially when they get back to the paddock and kick the dirt as their friends taunt them that they got "passed by a girl."
It's also a great place to go and learn new dirty jokes.
03-03-2008, 10:37 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
My wife did a dozen or so DEs 10 yrs back and liked it fine, but ultimately didn't love it enough to make it a life pursuit. On the other hand she has many times made the observation to single girls looking for guys that trackdays were goldmines of eligible guys dreaming of finding a woman who knew an apex from an axle. No one to our knowledge has ever followed up on that insight. She has similarly directed single guys to yoga classes as fertile hunting grounds and her hit rate is no better. We just returned from a long weekend in Nassau, where a walk on the beach brought us past a yoga retreat center. Sure enough, 90% women, and based on those on display (presumably between poses) her insight was if anything understated.
So my modest suggestion: Why not some cross marketing? Yoga/DE weekends anyone?
So my modest suggestion: Why not some cross marketing? Yoga/DE weekends anyone?
03-03-2008, 10:47 PM
#59
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Comments from my 18yo daughter's instructor at her first DE:
"Wound up passing two 911s in the next to last session and a third was wearing a target when the session ended. Last session we went out first, had two or three cars pass and was about 100 yards from lapping the last guy
If they only knew what passed them: 18 yr old girl, 100 hp car, slush-o-matic "
Makes me smile to read it again. I can't tell you how fantastic it was to watch my daughter have an absolute riot at the track. Dads -- take your daughter to the track. Let them see & experience it when they are young, and give them a chance to drive once they are old enough. You won't regret it, and there will be a new generation of women at the track.
"Wound up passing two 911s in the next to last session and a third was wearing a target when the session ended. Last session we went out first, had two or three cars pass and was about 100 yards from lapping the last guy
If they only knew what passed them: 18 yr old girl, 100 hp car, slush-o-matic "
Makes me smile to read it again. I can't tell you how fantastic it was to watch my daughter have an absolute riot at the track. Dads -- take your daughter to the track. Let them see & experience it when they are young, and give them a chance to drive once they are old enough. You won't regret it, and there will be a new generation of women at the track.
