ZAPmobile

Reading and signing the waiver is one of the most important parts of any PCA DE or driving event. Without this, we could not enjoy our hobby. When we take our cars to a DE, it is up to us to remember that s_ _ t happens. A good friend of ours, a pro driver, always reminds us of this by saying, "I could have stayed home on the couch watching TV."

I think it is terrible what happen to Mindy and her car. I'm not sure of all the facts here, but an instructor should never drive a student's car at more than 4-5/10ths in the green run group. And if they drive harder than that, they should be instantly demoted from instructor status.

One way to make sure that everone behaves in the 1st green run group of the event is to run it under a yellow flag and no faster than 4,000 rpm in 4th for that whole first session. With the student's approval, this is the only time an instructor drives the student's car, usually 2-4 laps before the student takes over. If a student asks an instructor to drive the car after that, it's up to them. Always remember to READ the waiver.

As an instructor, I have to bring up the flip side of this issuse. What if an instructor is in his/her student's car, something happens either mechanical or driver error, the car crashes, and the instructor needs medical care? Is it the student's responsibility to pay for that care? Most likely not, unless it's gross negligence. This is something we instructors face at every event. Realistically, the instructors corps is taking a much greater risk than a student ever does. That's something every student should keep in mind. Be nice to us poor instructors!

I can't say this strongly enough. Everyone who goes to a track event needs to read and understand the waiver, and if you agree, sign that waiver. If you do not agree with the waiver, it's simple; do not participate in the event.

Veloce Raptor

I will drive your car.

I will not drive it over 7/10ths, you have my word on that.

A930Rocket

If the Instructor drives their own car and the Student drives their own car, we wont have any problems with accidents and who's going to pay for what. When I was learning to drive on the track years ago, nobody drove my car to teach me the line. In green, they should be going SLOW enough to have the Instructor show them or do lead/follow if needed. Besides, what is "the line"? The race line? The DE line? Off line? Rain line?

mrbill_fl

Just like going to the gun range.... Safety First, every time....

DanS911

Yeah .....so...........if an Instructor gets inured in a students off course incident..........

Rick

My thoughts exactly...7 pages and we've not yet seen the word "drove"?

bobt993

If an instructor wants to "drove your car", respectfully decline.

Bull

I seem to be comfortable with "off line" much of the time..........mostly caused by that BKS guy....

Tony356993

+1

I had one of my first instructors for many years refuse to drove my car. I still go back to him, even today, for advise and to ride with me and he still will not drive my car. He's a smart man.

Tony356993

Character and common sense are key.

I have ridden with Chris many times and he has offered for me to drive his car many times. I have always refused as it might become a marital issue for me to purchase a destroyed GT3. It's a race track and anything is possible.

On the other hand, Chris has driven my 85 E (formerly F) car with me as the "instructor" and I understood that financially Chris could cover the car and if he chose not to, I could. We all understood the risk but I was aware that it is my car and my risk. I'm not sure there was the same level of mutual understanding in Mindy's case. I feel for her and it sucks. VR might have the best advise - be a constant (within the law) hemmoroid for the next decade or so and see how much Prep-H the guy can afford. Soud a bit Sicilian?

ZAPmobile

I'm not sure how to interpret your response, but my point is that once you sign the PCA waiver, you have indicated you have read it, understood it, and accept all responsibilities for you and your car. That includes not holding anyone else liable for same, especially the organizing committee and everyone acting on their behalf, including instructors. While I am certainly no lawyer, I believe the courts do not exempt "gross negligence."

Qwickrick

Was this a trick question?

When taking out a green, novice student, instructors within each region try to teach the exact same line to every student. Then, when the students goes out with the next instructor, they are not being confused by having to learn a different line.

We're not talking about advanced students being taught a rain line, nor going off line and definitely not a race line.

We were all in green once....

38D

There is no DE or race line...there is only a slow line and a fast line.

sjanes

It doesn't matter what you want to call it, the line taught in the lower run groups is not the line typically used in black/red or racing. Not at the DEs I've been to anyway.

bobt993

Collin, I guess put another way. There is "safe" line and a "fast" .