A.Wayne

Less not forget MS had launch control ( his words not mine ) on his steering wheel after it was banned ...

It is obvious Kimi has Barrichello's car , that was an error , for the next race he will have Massa's car , Massa will continue with scummies car ,,

ask Mika salo how good scummy car is , he got his one and only pole position in it , after getting off his couch in finland ....

A- FACT -JACK

multi21

Despite what our differences are regarding the greatness of Schumacher, I too believe he was pushed from Ferrari by Luca Di M. (Could he possibly believe Kimi was going to be better than MS, if so, it's not looking so good right now). The Finn, however, says he has concrete proof that MS was not pushed out, but will not spill the beans on what he knows.

A.Wayne

Pete
you drive a rotax , you are an f1 fan and you have a GT3 , so what if you think scummie is great , i understand everyone can't be as perfect as me ,
WHAT THE HECK , I STILL LUV YAH .....

Ray S

One big problem with your logic. They are all driving new cars now!!

That kinda shuffles the deck don't you think? Or I suppose you believe that if Alonso was still at Renault they would still be on top.....

M758

MS won as many WDC as he did because he was the complete package. Strong racing & drivings skills combined with the ability to engineer and develop both his car and his team. On the track MS show some amazing skills, but also make mistakes. As pure driver I can't say he was the best in F1 ever. If you go back throught hte 57 years of F1 there are better pure drivers. However where MS shinned is the ability to maintain a strong team around him. He changed the game in F1 so that it was no longer good enough to just be a fast driver. MS was the clear team leader and Ferrari for years. It is hard to say if any of the currnet drivers will the lasting impact that MS had. Hamilton has promise, but it is still way too early to say as right now he is following orders not giving them. Alonso I believe will fall out of favor and be destined to bounce around. He is good and fast, but when things go wrong if you start the blame game (especially with your team Hungary 06 anyone?) you will have a hard time keeping the team working for you at all times. As for Massa and Kimi? Seems to be that Kimi may not have the dedication to lead a team for many many years. Maybe not. As for Massa... I consider him to be good role driver. He has great car this year and could win WDC. I fear that he will not however be able to continue to develop the car MS style and thus the Ferrari chassis will begin to lag in performance over the next few years. This mean Massa's best chances for wins and a WDC is right now, but Kimi has chance to exert any strong force in the team and while he still has a car developed by MS.

Geo

Well, that and his lapdogs, er, teammates, giving up point to him. I wonder how many championships he wouldn't have won if his teammates (especially RB) were allowed to race fairly for points?

mamoroso

Joe just nailed it. I hate Scummie and I do not believe is in the top 3 pure drivers in F1 history but clearly he was the best package.

He pulled very talented people together to work for Ferrari and then convince them that the best shot at winning a WC was to give him special treatment...
Guess what. it worked. And Ferrari massively benefitted from it. Why should they change anything? They are out to maximise the return on their investment...

And when it became clear that Scummie was on the way down (with a rampant yet inexperienced Massa breathing down his neck and KR avaliable) LDM decided it was best for Ferrari to look elsewhere.

MS might have had another great year at his condition but LDM had to look at the future... And if they win again this year with FM then LDM will be a hero again.

A.Wayne

We had gone over this before but here goes....again

Ms did not assemble **** , please go back in history and look at the ferrari f1 team before scummie.

Gerhard berger was the man responsible in putting that team together , scummie did bring key personell with him but this was to add to what was already there .

when Berger left mCClaren the ferrari of 93 was total **** and he could not believe alesi was driving such **** boxes , the engines where **** , the chassis was ****... Berger went to japan and brought Honda guru Goto , to ferrari , his job was to revamp the v12 ferrari with his honda experience , this led to a new reliable powerplant and new engine department .

It was about this time Todt was taken away from puegoet , who's f 1 program had stalled, the team had started to gel , when the move was made to get scummie , alesi was let go to make space for scummie , Berger , who was offered what is now the famous schumacher contract , refused to sign to be an underling to schumacher and he in turn left , ferrari, luca and todt was adamant and did all they could to clear the situation as they wanted berger to stay and team with schumacher , but berger was having none of it, he left and joined alesi at benetton , the rest is history and yes they was once a time when schumacher drove a ferrari with a honda heart beat ....

If one person to get credit for Ferrari's excellent history over the last ten years is one J. Todt not MS.

For those that remember please refresh before responding ,for those that never knew this go and research , for the one's that don't believe , go and join
the Taliban .....

Ferrari will be succesful without Ms, because the biggest part of the puzzle is till in place , they never did need scummie to win those championships , massa and kimi will prove this .....or any othertop f1 driver currently , put alonso , in the ferrari and he would have 7 or w/c or hamilton and of course Massa. ...
YOU WILL SEEEEEE MY MS COMPATRIOTS

M758

When MS showed up at Benetton it was crap. Then they won 2 WDC.

When MS showed up at Ferrai they were still crap. Took them 2 years just to be competitive and then two more years to win a WDC after MS showed up. Why? The 96 Ferrari was still crap and it took a few more years of development to gain the edge. From then on Ferrari has been dominant. (up till the 1 tire year). If it was Berger's deveopment team why has he not be able to build a winner? Calling MS just a "warm body" in seat is simply not true. His teammates may have been mildly talented warm bodies, but MS was the heart of Ferrari and without him they would never have had such sucess in recient years. Remember not only did MS help build the team and car he also did a masteful job of keeping them together. Often times in F1 after sucess team members will get "big heads" and venture off to other teams for big money and their own spot light. That effect was minimal at Ferrari. That ability to keep the team together and focus on winning over and over again is one of MS's key aspects. Over the years I believe MS made it a point give credit to his team because he knew that to win he needed to take car of the guys that take care of him.

M758

Put Alonso, Kimi, Massa or any other driver in an 96 Ferrari and Ferrari would had zero WDC since then instead of 5. Clearly 2007 car is development of the very good 2006 car and has good shot at the championship. The real mark of how Massa and Kimi compare to MS will be how well the 2009 & 2010 car perform. (Short of a major rules shuffle, id expect the 2008 car to be strong, but maybe not dominant as it in 2007)

A.Wayne

Joe not comparing those drivers to scummie , point i'm trying to make is that the team does not get full credit , they made scummie, scummie did not make ferrari .
i will always say , if ferrari wins the wc this year it will be one of the rare times when a top driver has left a winning team and the team wins again in the next year , this has happen very rarely , if ferrari wins this year then it will diminish even more MS contribution to ferrari .....the fact that ferrari is still the best car on the grid shows his contribution was slim at best last year etc...

A.Wayne

LOL joe ,
Benneton was just taken over by Tom walkinshaw from TWR , briatory was sent in from the garment industry to watch over walkinshaw by benetton, walkinshaw assembled the team that took schumacher to 2 wc, he was the one who swooped schumacher from jordan , MS did not have anything to do with the snergy of that team , he was a kid learning F1..... He won 2 wc then moved on to ferrari after they where caught cheating at beneton , ( lauch control illegal tc etc ) Ms went to ferrari and took Key TWR people with him , these where not MS people , they became MS people when theymade that move ....it was part of his contract when he went to ferrari , to carry these key personnell..

Go and read the history joe , scummie came into a berger ferrari team , this deal about the guy making ferrari is as much a joke as his career numbers are .Did he contribute to their success - Yes, but it is more mutual than MS supporters are willing to admit ..
1. His warm body teammates . promptl out Qly him in australia in their first head t ohead and then was banned from testing for 1 yr ( eddie irvine )

2.warm body teammate no 2 at ferrari was forced to move over on numerous ocassions , regardless of wc position and forced to prop him up for more wc

3. warm body no 3 who is slower than warm body no 2 , proved enough for them to ask him to leave ,
ron dennis ( mclaren ) peter warr ( lotus ) and the team at tolman shed tears when senna left and the teams where never the same again , ferrari had a party and told scummie not to let the door kick him in the **** on the way out
So apparentl he is not held in the same regard as the other greats and WE KNOW WHY

multi21

+1. The bottom line is with Schumacher Bennetton went from a mediocre team to a two time WC. They never won again. Berger or not, Ferrari hadn't won a Championship in 21 years before Schumacher's arrival.

A great driver cannot overcome a bad car, but a good driver cannot necessarily bring home a championship with a great car (Fisi in the Renault over the past few years comes to mind).

A. Wayne, search your memory banks for the times, and there were many, when Schumacher did not have a good car whether it be mechanical problems, 1 tire rules etc. and ask yourself if he got the most out of the car and was competitive. During the 1 tire rule year when the Bridgestones were simply crap and there was NO chance of a WC, there was no reason for Barricello to move over or concede points, and yet he destroyed him. How about the time when MS's car had only 1 gear left on his lame car and still had to make a pit stop and STILL managed to podium. LASTLY, HOW ABOUT HIS LAST DRIVE IN BRAZIL. Mechanical issues in Q3 put him back, Fisi punctures his tire, almost gets lapped by Massa, then puts on a show that even you could not deny and comes in 4th passing Kimi along the way. Come on Wayne, as king of the Schummie bashers, even you have to give it up, you know that was a GREAT Drive.

Finally, ask Todt and Brawn their thoughts on MS and see what they've said about MS.

A.Wayne

Pete !
i don't have to ask them anything , he was beaten twice by a whiner .....
Action speaks louder than words and the door @ ferrari did not hit him in the *** on the way out ..... the king is dead long live the king .......
in a few years no one will remember scummie .......massa will be 07 wc , SCUMMIE and his antics would be a distant memory ... Ahhhh

pole position

So Senna's lapdog, Berger is now the man lol, the same Berger who talked big and never delivered despite having top notch equipment for the majority of his career but he had one talent, *** kissing and that made his seat secure. That countryman of mine could never hold a candle to Rindt or Lauda . His nickname in his country is the dud.......

Let's see, the press hated him, other drivers called him a reckless ******* bully, arrogant and disrespectful interviews, podium cermonies resembling a funeral, thought he was bigger than the sport etc etc. and if he would not have cashed in his chips in Imola with another reckless drive his star would be greatly diminshed now besides maybe some fourth country fanatical fans with a no way out economy.

I bet my bottom dollar that Prost or Mansell still have no kind words to say about him in private not in some political correct interview.

Now to Wayne's world, since you have this exorbitant knowledge why don't you provide some doc's with all your "facts", like Baricellos bootlicker contract or some stuff from the Benetton days. I expect deeds not words.............

Ferrari must be the dumbest team on earth, spending a ungodly amount of money on some total hack when even a monkey could have won 5 WDC's in their car. What is even more surprising that the number two in that team was never consistently second in each race the number one won or was 5 times second in the WDC.................................what kind of monkey is that when you can't even be a consistant second.................

Why Ferrari is not asking help from qualified armchair pistoleros like Wayne's world, Geo or the wingless Finn is beyond me.