camber799

I'm not referring to your physical safety. I should have stated that most people are reluctant to attend an event where they have no chance for insurance protection (IE timed events at high speed).

Some of us take the risk and have calculated the consequences (others hanen't ;-)

camber799

True, but you have a shot. You have no shot at a timed event (or in MA).

MJR911

Too much offseason time... is Sebring here yet?!

trumperZ06

I've been insured with Allstate for years... been watching their policy... closely.

This year... they didn't renew the existing policy. Offered us a new policy... taking Exception to ANY COVERAGE at a racing facility. My agent tried to get coverage for D E Events... she kept getting replies... 1000 and 1 additional questions... Allstate said they would cover a D E claiim without canceling... BUT... wouldn't put it in writing.

I am currently shopping for another insurance company.

Any suggestions ?

Brian_77_3.6

I would not accept anything that they will not put into writing as anything more than an agent trying to maintain your business. Whatever the policy says is what they will enforce. I am not sure a claim for DE would result in cancellation with this langauge in their policy. Its not a chargable accident against your driving record. But I am sure they would deny the claim.

trumperZ06

I came to the same conclusion. Looking for another Insurance Company to replace Allstate. They have been adding that clause over the last couple of years... thats why I reviewed each policy as it came up for re-newal.

Larry Herman

Brian, when Dan hit the tire wall in my car, State Farm paid the claim, with no problems. Then when he switched his own insurance to State Farm, he was surprised by the somewhat higher rate. When he inquired they told him that he had one at-fault accident. When he asked where, the agent consulted his computer and said "Summit Point in June of 2004". State Farm told me when I bought the car that they would cover it with no problems. They have been true to their word.

Matt Marks

I think the insurance question re-enforces the initial post. For my 2 cents - one of the senior-most instructors in Potomac and a well known (i.e. winning) club racer put it best during a track walk. With a group of brand new 0/0 students walking the Jefferson Circuit at Summit and watching a BMW total itself in T1 of the big track, he tells them;

"if you do this long enough and push hard enough - something will happen. Think about it."

If you write a car off in DE and expect your insurance to pay - I think you're naive. They may, but if you're concerned they won't and you can't afford to write the check if needed, please proceed back to Post 1 in this thread. I think this lends additional credence to Sunday Driver's initial post.

Having to write the check and/or explain the situation to your spouse (and this is completely discounting that that you may have been hurt as well) will radically change your approach to your driving and how you work with students.

APKhaos

There is a significant difference here between racing and DE. The message tend to get a little muddied by the fact that many more senior DE instructors are [or were] racers.

The expectation that everyone should take into a DE event is that they will have their car in one piece at the end of the event. As instructors, one of our clear responsibilities is to impress students at all levels with the consequences of over-reaching and the need to drive within their limits. THis is easy to say and hard to do. How often do we hear paddock bragging that reeks of overly competitive behavior in a run group? ANd what do we do about it?

Its a little counter-intuitive to be teaching students to drive faster, and yet warning them about their limits and the consequences of exceeding them. We owe it to our students to keep focus on this point. Despite the paddock bravado, nobody wants to be 'the one' that ***** up a car, and we instructors play a large part in managing the attiudes and behaviors that will go a long way towards avoiding incidents.

Brian_77_3.6

Larry,

Larry,
In my previous post all I said was that I did not think Allstate would drop someone for submitting a DE claim as long as their record was not full of other chargeable accidents. As to chargable accidents if Allstate did not pay the claim there woudl be no chargable accident from the track event as they would not have paided a claim. State Farm did not drop Dan, they did insure him even if they required a slightly higher rate. And they payed the claim.

But remember that when Bodo stuffed his car at the Glen that nationwide put up a hard fight even though the agent said he was covered. Your claim with State Farm was minor damage and I am not so sure they would be as "nice" if they where looking at a totalled GT3. They would certainly have persued a much deeper investigation.

My State Farm policy on the 911 is classic car insurance and that policy is very specific as to what use of the car it covers and everything else is not covered.

M758

If you are starting out in DE your street car is just fine. You should expect to drive home in the condition you brought it. Naturally when you start doing DE you should NOT be exploring your limits. This means you should leave lots of margin. You instructor is there to help you build your limit and also reign you in if you push too hard.

Example. Yesterday I had a student in GT3. Wonderfull car by the way. The track was a low speed tight track with lot of run off. However the outside of the slowest corner there was a nasty spot. This was a corner that led to the longest straight and just off track there was hole. My concern was that just putting wheel off would drop the car in the hole and bottom out. So while the were was lots of "room" I was very carefull to keep my student we away from this drop off. I purposefully forced him to apex late just to keep him away from that potential dangerious spot. The intent was to have him have fun and drive the car home as pretty as he brought.

The contrast is some who is doing 15 to 40 track days a year. If you start doing that many track days you will start pushing hard and the sheer number of track miles means the risks go up. In those cases I believe a low value track car is the best thing since one day something may happen.

GhettoRacer

Mark, that is a little extreme. Not every DE students want to go w2w or extract 100% of performance from their cars or themselves. Lot of them just want to enjoy the track/car. Instructor's job is to provide them with a path for development in a safe manner.

It does not make sense that you have to crashed in order to appreciate safety. All you need is a head with a brain that can reason properly. No one in their right mind will do stupid things to cause harm to themselves or others.

I have seen seen people crashes at DE's, and it happens. I'm proud to say that all of my students have done well. I may not be a great instructor according to some, but I have kept my promise of keeping my students safe.