Bull

Us type X drivers find both the Type B and Type A drivers to be a PITA!

camber799

If you are rated X you can still be A or B.

38D

You don't by chance live in northern New Jersey, do you?

DrJupeman

Ah crap, I'm sure another lawsuit threat for a friend's keyboard antics is on its way to me any moment...

As for 38D's avatar, I think it is too heavily clothed.

On topic, I have spun and crashed (two worst were mechanical to boot - how about driving the rest of your career with doubt?) and am a better driver and instructor for it. You never know until you do...

racer

I heard that the avatar for 38D IS from his workplace so it must be safe

38D

All I am saying is you are either fast or slow regardless of if you DE or race. Really there is a spectrum from slow to fast ('cause clearly I know I'm not even close to the legit fast guys like Scotto, Chong, Doblow, Peare, Burger, Goldrich, Chadwick, Deman, Savenor, etc, etc, etc.)

trackjunky

I guess I agree with the philosopy introduced in this thread.

The basic idea is that you should be more comfortable with a given situation if you have been through it once before. The only problem here is do you consider someone who spins driving 5-6/10th just as experienced as someone who drives 9-10/10ths and doesn't spin?

Who would you rather instuct you? Who would you feel safer with?

BTW, I was just asked to instruct. So, I promptly ran into my garage door, hit a parked car across the street then performed a series of uncontrolled doughnuts in the supermarket parking lot. Am I covered?

Brian_77_3.6

These thoughts come from a "B" type driver who is getting faster. I dont think you need to be a track incident statistic to be a good instructor for DE. What I do think is that you need to be someone who has progressed into the advanced run group with slow and steady progress as well as having the proper communication skills to instruct. Seat time also brings the realization of the danger involved even if it is not you who is the statistic. I spun when I was in green and had a few off track excursions in green and blue as I learned what mistakes are all about. In those years of my DE experience two wheels off was not a strange concepts. As a solo driver however I have been consistent enough to make few mistakes and have the car control to keep the car on the track when I do. I have only had one off as a solo driver and that was in the rain. I have had a car that just passed me spin and hit the wall when they are 30 feet infront of me and I am doing 120mph. Car Parts flying and only a split second to decide where to place your car to avoid contact. I have had many other drivers I was following spin in front of me and had to avoid them. I have come around a blind corner to find that a car just went off into the tires (yes I saw the dust) only to find that tires are now lying in the track and have to avoid them. I have stood at track out working my work assignment and watched friends spin and one even hit the wall right in front of me. I have seen numerous wadded cars with drivers who walked away and those that left in an ambulance. It took a lot of years of DE to accumulate these experiences but surely they have made me aware and in tune with the dangers of the track. With seven years of DE experience I now am considering joining the instructor ranks and I believe I am every bit as "humbled" as those who have stuffed their cars.

leif997

This many close incident experiences during your time solo driving? You may have been able to avoid contact numerous times; but what does it say overall about the quality of your co-solo drivers' ablities and the quality and assimilation of DE instruction that they allegedly recieved prior to being allowed to go solo?
Please tell us the name of your PCA region so that the instructors responsible for allowing such carnage can take a bow.

cooleyjb

Do people here think there is a difference between a Driving Instructor for a DE and a Drivers Coach.

I think I might be running into a symantecs thing. A lot of people in the thread are probably ones that would need a driver's coach in my book whereas a DE instructor is not necessarily the same level knowledge and experience usually.

Driver's Coach= used by current racers to fine tune technique

Drving Instructor= someone who introduces new people to high speed car control in a safe controlled area.

leif997

This IS the racing forum...

camber799

I think this might be splitting hairs. The best driving schools have instructors that work with pro racers. Typical DE instructors probably wouldn't cut it at a top driver training school like Bondurant, etc but there are some that could.

But to your point...

As I stated in one of my earlier posts in this thread I prefer to instruct students that can drive. I separate students yet again into two groups (and the A and B groups I mention earlier are not relevent to this group). Those you have to instruct and those you have to coach. I really like white run group drivers because they tend to be able to get around the track OK but they generally have bad habits and they tend to need a lot of polish. They also generally know the track and/or can pick up the track quickly.

They need coaching rather than instructing. This is the role I really enjoy. I really dread getting green run group students becuase I dislike the level of basic detail that they require.

This is the difference in definition between coach and instructor that I have developed. Or, what I mean to say is this is MY definition and not an industry or expert definition.

So, while I see a difference between the two words, I do not think that the level of experience of the individual is the deciding factor as to whether they are a coach or instructor. It's probably just what they are good at.

As an aside: "B" type instructors tend to awesome with green run group drivers.

Larry Herman

After 20 years of instructing, I feel the exact same way. But every once in a while you get a student that "gets it" and progresses in meteoric fashion. They can make all the other BS worthwhile.

camber799

I can't agree more. I do remember a Green run group student that just kicked butt and, as you stated, he just "got it". That guy was a joy to work with and If I had more of them I would probably change my position.

cooleyjb

Actually it is the Racing and Drivers Education Forum.