I'm interested in getting into racing. I've done my share of effin around on the track, and PCA and BMWCCA DE's, but I wanna go further, and there is no way in hell I'm gonna accept the two big arguments why I shouldn't... those being:

1) Geoff, You're too old. you should have started in Go-karts when you were 5

or

2) Geoff, You're too poor, to make a small fortune in racing, you must start with a large one...

See, my logic says, that you're never too old to go racing. NEVER. and Paul Tracy is 32, and look at him, kickin *** in the CHAMP car world series... he's got 10 years on me! and as for the money issue, that's why I'm going to college... to get an education to get a job that will be able to fund my racing.

ANYWAY, to get to the point of this thread, I've heard a lot of praise on the Skip Barber schools, and I'm seriously considering attending. anyone here have any info? thanks!
-Geoff

 

If you are wanting to go professional racing, you're way behind the curve. Paul Tracy had a ride with Penske Racing when he was 19. He won the ARS (Indy Lights) championship at 18. Your numbers 1 & 2 above are quite correct.

If you think getting a college education will fund a professional racing career, you're done already. It won't. And when I say professional, I mean putting food on the table by racing a car, not a semi-professional gig where you put food on the table with another job.

If you want to go professional racing, buy a kart THIS MONTH. Find a place to go racing and race for the rest of this season. Race it whenever you can. You'll need to quit school right now. You'll need to get your competition license ASAP. There are schools out there that will fulfill the requirements for an SCCA regional competition license. You should immediately rent some rides to get a national license. ASAP you need to get a pro license, because amateur racing, even at the highest levels, is generally ignored by professional teams with the possible exception of winning a Formula Ford or Formula Continental (FF2000) championship at the Runoffs. If you don't win either championship, it doesn't really matter what you do in amateur racing.

Pro teams don't generally care too much about what you did before you turned pro. OK, they do a little, but they care more about the BIG CHECK you are bringing them. I don't have a good idea anymore, but I'd wager a full season run at a championship (with a team capable of winning) in Formula Mazda or Formula BMW has got to run a quarter of a million dollars.

You have to be prepared to sacrifice everything. Relationships, a decent car, a decent place to live, etc. Virtually every dollar you get will have to go towards your racing career. You'll probably end up borrowing money you don't have an have no idea how you will be able to pay it off either. In the end, if you don't make it, you'll be in your mid-20s, in major debt, no degree, and probably few ways of paying off your debt. You'll be broke and alone.

Still want to try professional racing? If so, you better be prepared to make all the sacrifices I mentioned and more. If not, get your college degree and go amateur racing and enjoy it like the rest of us. If you're really good and either earn enough to pay yourself, or good enough at finding sponsors, you might be lucky enough to make a go at semi-professional racing - racing in a professional series, but putting food on the table through your real job.

Either way, good luck.

BTW, at 28 I very strongly considered taking a run at a professional career in racing (real pro putting food on the table through racing). I finally came to my senses and realized that I was at least 10 years too late. I'd already been racing karts for a couple of years and knew I wasn't the second coming of Ayrton Senna. The very best I knew I could every hope for was to break even by the time I retired.

 

Or did you mean Club racing, as in PCA or SCCA? In that case - just do it.

and btw- a quick search here will turn up miles of threads on Skippy (and other) schools.

Alan

 

A friend of mine used to race carts and small formula cars against some of the current IRL and Champ Car guys. He always placed in the top 5, one year a championship.

Why is he no longer racing? He was offered a few ride, however he did not have $1 million to progress to the next level (this was at age 16 or 17). Keep in mind his parents were funding everything for him.

Sure there are people that earn their way up through the ranks and gain sponsorship, it is possible but very unlikely.

 

GEO - can you give me some links to Shifter cart groups, I've been contemplating giving up my dirtbike for one.

 

Oh gosh, I'm so far removed from kart racing these days I'm not the person to ask anymore. Too much has changed. But I do know there are active kart racers here, including shifter karts. Something to keep in mind IMHO - jumping directly into a shifter kart is not unlike jumping directly into a Champ Car or perhaps an F1 car. As long as you stick with a 2-cycle kart, there are many clutch karts that will out accelerate anything you've probably ever driven. It can be done, but the information overload is intense. Just too much happening too quickly.

 

I assumed that the reference to Paul Tracy was in regards to going professional racing. Shoot, you're never too old to go amateur racing. Just look at PL Newman.

 

I think George is probably right no all accounts, but I wouldn't say it is IMPOSSIBLE to become a pro at a later age. Boris Said is an example:

http://www.nascar.com/drivers/dps/bsaid00/cup/bio.html

I will say it is highly improbable. I wouldn't suggest staking your entire life on it. I do agree that their is no chance of dominating the highest levels. Most of those guys started in some sort of racing (karts, dirt track, midgets, motocross) as a 4-5 year old. They probably make up 99.9% of pro drivers. Every once in a while a Boris Said slips in. Also keep in mind that Boris is known for being an extraordinarily dedicated and persistent person. I have a feeling he made sacrifices and took risks similar to what George described.

I think you should look at some sort of "Spec" racing series. These appear to offer the greatest competition-to-cost benefit. You most likely won't find a Porsche spec series in CO. In fact, your two best opportunities are probably spec karting or Spec Miata.

I know that there are 3-4 kart tracks near Denver. I don't know much about the racing there, but I would suggest checking that out. You are probably best served with a spec TaG series. The initial cost appears to be a bit higher, but your tuning options are limited and I think it shields you from the "arms-race".

I think there is a guy here on Rennlist in the Denver area who is racing Spec Miata. You might want to search for him and contact him.

BTW, as a disclaimer, I don't have much direct experience with this, but I have been researching very similar questions for myself and thought I would share.

 

Geoff

I just completed a skip 3 day racing school at Lime Rock. It was awesome and well worth the $$. The highlight for me was the second half of day 3, were you get to lap the track as fast as your abilities will let you and put into pratcice some of the skills we learnt like Trail Brake Rotation and Treshold Braking, finding the right line Etc! you are allowed pass on the straightaways and its as close to racing as I have been. The Formula Dodge cars are serious machines and very sensitive to driver imput. A lot of fun.

Bruce MacInnes was our chief instructor and he was excellent giving detailed feedback on every area of students driving and progress. I plan on going back for the 2 day advanced school and hopefully try a few Race Series events next year. I harbor no aspirations of making a living in racing.that shipped sailed a long time ago:-) But I would like to explore the sport a little further as a hobby maybe.

 

Since when is the Trans-Am series and 24 / Daytona considered amateur racing?


Not bad for an 80 year old:

 

Hey,
There are two ways into racing. To be "Pro" like Geo describes you are already too old and too late. You might pull it off now, but you need to give up everything then you might have chance.


The other way is to do it like most of here on this list. Dabble in DE and have fun. Get good education and solid job. Save some money and then get a club race license. Do some SCCA, NASA, PCA, BMWCCA, etc types of racing. Enjoy it. Along the way work at your job and in time maybe you can make enoough money to move up into faster cars and maybe even low level pro stuff.

There many many folks who have done this, but they do it with their own money. I am 31 right now. I have no apirations of being a "Pro" race driver. I am however very happy that I have been able to race and have been rather sucessful at it. I do hope that one day I may be in a postion were I can race in lower level pro series like SPEED GT / Touring car or Grand Am cup or even Rolex.

I firmly believe the only thing seperating me from those series is money.

I have friend of mine that started racing with my in 944-spec. After a couple years he sold the 944 and got a former Grand Am cup Integra Type R. He just wanted a faster car. Well he ended up hooking up with a couple local Honda "Ricer" shops and is getting sponsored. They are not paying him actually money, but are covering event costs and expenses.

Just a few weeks back he did a race in NASA's USTCC series with the ITR. They are intermediate pro series. They are "pro" in many ways, but most are just club guys looking for a more pro atmosphere as I have done about 4 races sharing the track with them.

Anyway they ran with the Champ Cars at San Jose. It was the first big spectator event for the series. Word is that the Champ car directors liked the USTCC boys and have invited them to run a support race with them A Long Beach next year and there is going to be TV support as well.

Things like this can grow and maybe my friend can grow from the amature club racer ranks to an offical "semi-pro".

So those are your two options for being a racer.

 

All of the above is good, realistic advice, but to answer your question, I would say that a racing school is a requisite for compressing your development curve and making sure you develop the right habits. It's also one step towards getting a racing license so it's valuable from that standpoint alone.

 

Alright. I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna try and get as far ahead as possible... I geuss I was a little too anxious last night, and yeah... but I'm gonna get as far as possible, and hopefully some people would notice and offer me a seat on a pro team...

Anyway, I just love the sport. no better feeling than haulin ***, and putting yourself one with your machine, and using that to conquer the challenges put forth infront of you. So, with my love of the sport, I'll push foward. Good to know that Skippy is worth the cash... cuz it ain't cheap.

 

That is the hard part, in Champ Car right now they offer rides to all kinds of drivers, those without money behind them (either sponsors or family) usually do not get in. Same goes for F1 - some of those guys buy their way in (see Jordan and Menardi).
What series are you shooting for? I've always thought that the endurance races might be a good place to try and pick up a pro ride. Each team nees 4-5 drivers anyway - just my guess, I could be wrong.

Good luck man - if you make it, I better not have to wait long in the autograph line!

 

I don't really know that is true.

I know in my case I have Bondurant Racing school local to me. I always wanted to go, but it was too much money. Plus I wanted to go when I could actualy learn something rather than being so new and fresh I could only get 1/3 of what I was taught.

Now a few years later I am racing and doing pretty good. I have considered going now, but the begineer class would be waste. I know how to trail brake and heel and toe. What I need is an advanced racing class, but for $3000 I could just run 5 race weekends easily and learn "racing" by being in traffic and racing hard.

I really wonder if $3000 for 3 days is really worth it espcially for low budget racer?