Geo

He hasn't run those in a while as I understand it. I DO know he has raced in SCCA GT1 this year however.

M758

Well,
If want to race at Daytona next year all I need is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and I am there. I can just give a call to any number of GT car teams and tell them I have $$$$$$ and want to race.

Mighty Shilling

True, endurance racing wouldn't be bad... do you think a properly setup 951 would be competitive? that sure would be cool to see a 951 at Daytona or Sebring...

hacker-pschorr

He ran a Trans-Am race in the rain at the Glen (this year or last?) He climed up to 2nd place and was upset he didn't take the lead. He is one of those people you wish could live forever.

I'm pretty sure there is an age limit (car wise). This is why Mark Anderson of 928 International had to stop running in the Speed GT series.

Mighty Shilling

Hrm... Ok. Looks like I'll just have to fork up the cash for a GT3 RSR... Damn...

Anyone wanna go in it with me? send us to Sebring?

M758

They are not elidgeble for any pro racing at Daytona or Sebring.

For that matter I don't beleve the 944 or even 968 is elidgible for ANY pro racing series. Simply the cars are too old.


There are plenty of places to pro race a GT3 Cup however. These are much cheaper to run than a GT3 RSR.

Geo

If you want to get noticed, you have to carry a BIG check.

If you want to become a professional racer, you need to get into open wheel cars NOW. No screwing around. Get in a kart NOW. If you can't afford one, or figure out how to swing one, you're done before you get started. This is a no excuses game. You will be competing for rides with the best of the best and some of the rest, and a lot of them carry big checks.

Racing in tin-tops will get you no where fast. There are a scant few who have made a decent living in road racing coming up through the tin-top ranks. Most of the paid pros you see in endurance racing did their time in open wheel cars trying to make it to the very top of the sport. Forget dog-eat-dog in this sport. Most drivers at the top would sell their mother and grandmother to get a decent ride. Be SURE you know what you are getting into. I looked at this VERY carefully some 15 years ago before realizing I was too old.

You're going to want to take some public speaking classes. Sponsors like drivers who represent them well. Even better if they motivate their troops. Towards that end, start studying many motivational speakers. If you're really lucky, you might be able to get one to take you somewhat under their wing hoping in get a return out of you later in some fashion.

Bottom line is, if you want to do this, you need to be doing something NOW to get your butt into a competitve open wheel ride. Every day you delay just puts you closer to failure. It must consume every second of your waking hours.

Good luck.

Geo

If you are thinking about buying a car and building a team, forget it unless you have a few million dollars available to you right this minute to buy the best equipment and personnel money can buy.

I don't mean to crush your dream, but I don't think you have a realistic concept of just how bloody hard this is. Forget buying and building a car. Get your butt in the seat of someone else's car. You see almost NO professional drivers creating a career for themselves in their own car. Other people's cars and other people's money.

If you are serious, you should be trying to get your heinie in a Pro Formula Mazda or Formula BMW today or figuring out exactly the steps to get yourself into one in the shortest time possible.

Again, I don't mean to be harsh, but it's a bloody harsh business. It's also damned expensive, so bad choices can kill a career faster than it starts.

dmw44

I took these pics of PLN last February at the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona.

Geo

Cool. Never too old to go semi-professional racing either.

Mighty Shilling

Geo, Thanks for the realistic view on Racing. I'm gonna do everything in my power to get out there. Hopefully, I'll succeed. I'm well aware the costs of owning/fielding a car... we were talking to someone at the Denver Grand Prix yesterday, who was a crew member, and we asked, "so, just how much is it to field a car?" and the guy said, "Well, 14 races a year, crew, car, entry fees, etc. etc., comes to a little over $7 million..."

Well, I've been looking into the Formula Dodge races in the Skip Barber things... they claim it's about $50,000.00 to field a car for a year... still, not cheap, but a hell of a lot cheaper than 7 million...

as for public speaking classes, done em. leadership classes too... I'll need to go out, and see what sponsorship takes. I won't give up until I've been shot down numerous times.

One more thing: another reason I'm not taking "you're too old" as an excuse, look at Janet Guthrie, She was my age when starting, 22 years old. started with an old jag, and that was in the 70s, where a woman in a race car was heracy. She's competed in the indy 500 on multiple occasion, and done plenty of endurance racing.

As for the "tin top" stuff, Yeah, I had no idea that most endurance racers did open wheel to get their name out there. Well, I'm gonna start looking around.

Geo

My pleasure. My view is certainly not the only view, but it truly comes from a point of view of putting food on the table and sending kids to college. Truly making a living at it. I was under no illusions and you shouldn't be either.

You need to be confident you will (regardless of what happens).

And it won't get you noticed, but you'll learn in a hurry just how tough the reality can be. Does Barber still have a pro series that supports Champ Car? They used to, and it even got TV coverage. It's one of the place JPM made a name for himself in the US.

Your goal should be to run a pro Toyota Atlantic ASAP. That is the minimum level where you will receive any real notice if you do well. That's probably $1-2MM these days for a season.

You need to excel at it. You can never take enough classes when looking for sponsors. Take classes from motivational speakers. Take the Dale Carnege classes. Join toastmasters. If you're serious about getting sponsors (and keeping them) this may not be a must (I think it is), but it will give you a leg up on your rivals (for sponsorship). If you really want to maximize your chances of success, this should become almost as much a passion as driving. Remember, you're asking people to give you hundreds of thousands of dollars, perhaps millions.

Then you won't even get out of the gate. You'd better be prepared to be shot down literally hundreds and hundreds of times.

Things have changed quite a lot since then, but your never say die attitude is a start.

What happens is that open wheel drivers run out of money or talent or both or just plain don't have a chair when the music stops. They wonder what the hell they are going to do and end up taking money from a top tin-top team who is looking for much better talen than they typically get from those rising through the tin-top ranks. Making things worse is the fact a lot of drivers are starting to step down from the top rungs of open wheel racing to drive tin-tops due to lower demands upon them. But that makes the competitive environment that much tougher- ala Jean Alesi, Mika Haka(something - sorry can't spell his last name), and others. Happens here in the states too.

A lot of the guys who step down from open wheel cars to sports cars have long and happy careers.

But don't just take my word for it. Seek out those who have considered this path seriously and those who have gone down it. Probably 1/100th of 1% actually make a living at it. Imagine if Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan had to PAY hundreds of thousands to millions just to attempt to play their sport professionally.

38D

When you did you DEs, were you the aboslute fastest person at the event? I would think someone with pro level talent would be absurdly fast right from the get go. It would be like starting to play golf for the first time at 22 and then trying to make the PGA tour...unless you shot sub 80 your very first time out, you just ain't gonna make it.

Mighty Shilling

Well, not the fastest, but I've done my share of passing with what my car's performance has allowed. the 924S rarely has a chance to pass 911's, 951's, 928's, etc. etc. I've been pushing it harder than it's ever been pushed before. Last time out, I was right on the tail of a 218 HP Mini Cooper S, and I've practiced with the guy before, I know he's fast.

Anyway, I sent out a couple emails to the guys in charge of Formula BMW. Told them of my interest and asked advice on where to start my search.

Thanks all. Wish me luck, and next time ya see me, get my autograph. it'll be worth something someday.

macnewma

George, it is interesting that you mention that. Tiger Woods family took a similar approach to "creating" his talent. His father dedicated his own life to developing Tiger. It may or may not of cost millions, but they gave it everything they had.

By the time he was a rookie on the tour he was able to command the top teaching pros and the ultimate "team" around him.

It is actually very similar to what Jeff Gordon did. He was started very young and his family set everything aside to develop him. He started at 5 and was winning sprint car races by 12 or 13 I believe. By the time he was old enough to race at a top level teams were fighting over him.

When you start at 23 you have to sell your skills which, if you are exceptionally gifted, MIGHT be equal to some 16 year old who has raced since he was 4. This kid, who is as talented (probably more), than you hasn't even developed an adult mind. As a team owner I am going to invest in the 16 year old even if all other things are equal (and they aren't).

I think the difference between today's racing and the days when a Janet Guthrie could get into it (btw, she was a test pilot and I believe that translates over pretty well similar to motocross guys). If you look at the current generation of NASCAR stars, they were all winning races when in grade school. They are more skilled at 24 than most of the old hats ever dreamed of being at any point in their careers.

I think what we are seeing is the maturation of auto racing in the US. It has been lucrative enough for long enough that people are pushing their kids into at a young enough age. They see Michael Andretti, Little Al, etc. become successful because of exposure at such a young age (I don't believe it is in their blood). Now Joe Schmoe has decided to jump in and follow Mario and Big Al's lead.

I don't think we will see a top pro driver start their career after the age of 8-9 ever again. It is simply too competitive and they would be at such a disadvantage.

I think that if you are exceptionally talented you could emulate what Paul Mumford was able to do prior to his unfortunate death: http://www.nsxfiles.com/mumford.htm

He was obviously exceptionally talented and it is hard to say where that came from. I am sure he worked hard at it, but he must have also had extraordinary natural ability. If this is you, then go for it...and hook me up with some pit passes once you start winning!!!

I think your best plan of attack is to get as much race experience as possible. If you go get a Spec Miata and start spanking people, move onto Formula "You name it" and spank people there. It will propagate if you can win. The most viatl thing is to put your sponsor in the winner's circle and in the media.