38D

I passed a 993tt at my very first track event in a stock 2.0L 914...it didn't make me a pro. Do yourself a favor before you invest a lot in this dream: compare your times to the best club race times in H & I. If you're not alreay faster than all of the club racers, I doubt you'll ever be a pro. There are only two tickets into the game: true talent or a truckload of cash. My wife has worked for years at the top levels of the Hunter/Jumper equestrian scene and it's the exact same thing. You either have to buy your way in or be one of the most talented people out there. And unfortunately, tenacity is just not going to help.

pedsurg

I'm still interested in an answer to the man's question. Given his situation, what do people think about Skippy or (fill in the blank) driving school?
Jack

Mighty Shilling

38D, was that street or track tires? I've contacted BMW for information regarding their racing center. When I find out cost and dates etc. for their school (of which graduation yeilds an international C license), I'm gonna do it. I'll take out a loan from the bank, and go to that course. where it goes from there is unknown, but, Damnit, i want the same training Ralf Schumacher recieved.

I do know that it is cost and age prohibitive, I know I'm too old, I know it's gonna break my bank account, but f*ck it, I'll be able to say I tried to achieve my dream of auto racing, and I'll be able to say at least I have an international C license. I want to progress in my driving abilities. I'm going to the track on Wednesday, and I'm gonna push it, and see how much I can drop my lap times. I'm running 1:29's on 2nd Creek Raceway, track record is 1:14 on a bike. but I do run street tires. I'm determined to progress as far as I can. if it's pro, great. if not, I'll be poor and happy that I got as far as I did, and I at least TRIED. Too many people look at things, say "there is a good chance that it wont, so I won't." I'm gonna at least TRY.

so, wish me luck.

Geo

Whoa Nelly!

You're a big boy and entitlted to make big boy decisions and big boy mistakes, but take a word of advice here - don't go into debt just to see if you might have an inkling of what it takes. Go buy a kart and go racing NOW. You'll learn more in a huge hurry. You'll also find out pretty quickly if you even have a chance. If you can't win in your first year of karting, the chances of becoming a pro are pretty slim.

I had a friend in karting who was winning driving junk. People took notice because they knew he was driving junk and he was still winning.

Crashing a lot is going to get expensive.

I'm not going to tell you not to do it. What I AM telling you is you need to be a LOT more educated about what's involved and how to go about it. This is a business. A serious business with big dollars and big financial risk involved. People take this VERY seriously at the professional level.

IMHO you need to get the stars out of your eyes and treat this as a business from the get-go or you're done before you start.

TT Surgeon

My brother and I campaigned a car in the early-mid 80's, my dad and a couple of local sponsors bankrolled the whole deal. There is a huge difference btwn the local-yokal scene at the track around the corner compaired to the national circuit. I remember dominating local events and barely qualifying nationally going home empty handed. We eventually quit, sold everything and finished school, now I have just started de stuff over the last few yrs leisurely, just for fun. It's a lot less stressful and cheaper.
Racing rerquires total commitment, mentally, emotionally and financially. The odds against catching a cup ride are astronomical if not impossible at your age and driving/racing level. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Penke recently signed a 15 yo driver to his corral for the Busch series, the kid has already been running and winning in sprint cars in Iowa. Do yourself a favor and persue local club racing/scca stuff if you must, that's probably more realistic.
Good luck

TD in DC

ahh the exhuberance of youth. Now I can look forward to reliving it a little through my own kids, hopefully while sitting on my couch with stogie and a nice cab! Good luck Geoff, but don't dismiss the advice being given here too lightly . . .

Mighty Shilling

Oh, I won't, I know Rennlist gives great advice.

Geo

Yep.

I'm not going to tell you not to do it. You're at an age where you just barely have a window of opportunity. However, you have to be 100% serious, committed, and focused right this second. You need to get competition experience NOW. If you want the training the Schumachers had, you need to be in a kart by the end of the month at the latest. That is where they built their foundation and learned about racing.

If you want to do this you need to be in competition ASAP. If you cannot afford to get your butt into a competitive open wheel race car right now (and put up a damage bond and also pay for some training and testing - figure maybe $10-20k for a Formula Ford) you need to be in a kart NOW. You should be able to get everything you need to be in a reasonably competitive used kart for under $5k.

If you cannot swing this before the end of the month, this year is shot to hell and your slim chances of success diminish greatly. You need to be in competition NOW and actively pursue a pro open wheel drive to start next season. Forget racing school unless you are doing it in prep for a FULL season in the Barber series next year while pursuing a pro drive next year as well.

If you cannot do the above, you'd better question yourself pretty seriously. That is the absolute minimum you need to do this year and next.

MJR911

Formula BMW costs $300,000 for the season and you didn't even eat or travel.

MJR911

What kind of bank would give you that loan?! I'm taking out a loan in the same amount now to buy a house and have enough trouble figuring out how to pay it back.

macnewma

I think George has given you your best option:

Buy a kart in a competitive class, preferably a kart that isn't top notch, and give it a shot. If by your third or fourth race you aren't whipping everyone, go back to school, study hard, make some money and go amateur racing at whatever level you can afford.

If you are crushing everyone in your class, try a rental in a Formula "You Pick" and win that race. If you don't win your first or second time out go back to school, etc.

If you do win, move up to the next series until someone notices you and says, "hey do you want to drive my backmarker, struggling car in a World Challenge or Rolex race". Turn some heads by placing much higher than your car should and turning some hot laps. Hope the right team owner has a spot and sees you, etc..................

Oh you could also be a hot chick who weighs 40lbs less than everyone else and is a middle of the pack driver in that series who will make more money than the series champ without winning a race. That is always an option.

M758

Making a living in racing is hard just like Geo said. Al remember that being a racing pro is not all what it appears to us outsiders. There is alot of time spent "working" and it is not all fun and games.


Hey I race for fun. When I am not having fun or don't want to race a certain day or at a certain track or certain car or even vs a certain driver I don't. Simple. If you are "pro" well it is your job so have to do it.

There are alot of people that realize that their making their hobby into a job just makes the hobby into work.

If you really want to make it big in racing it is very hard. If you just want to have fun it is rather easy.

MJR911

M758 is right about doing it for fun vs making a living. Dave Donohue once told me about a time he was testing the Oreca Viper that he placed 2nd at Le Mans in. He did all the testing, would fly to tracks across the country, sit and not drive b/c the cars were unsafe, then be forced to heed 'team orders' in the race and let the French sister car win.


Of course i'd probably still rather do that, but there is huge stress that none of us endure as "weekend warriors" or "well funded pros." Look at Skip's example in the Speed GT, he had no pressure to do well as he did it on his own bank mostly (I assume) vs Mad Max who needs to win to keep his ride and feed his family.

Rick Longano

Just a note regarding talent. I gave Leh Keen a check ride in his Dad's 993 Supercup car at a PCA Drivers Ed event at Roebling Road about 3 years ago. Leh was 18 years old with no track car experience, let alone a car as capable as a 993 cup. Leh didn't know how to downshift (he had not driven a stick much) and had never heard of heal and toe. After 5 laps, we goy out of the car and I signed Leh off to drive solo, walked over to Leh's Dad and told him that in 2 years Leh would be unbeatable. I was wrong - he was pretty much unbeatable in 1 year. Tha's how good his input (throttle, steering, and braking) insticts were. If you have seen any of his videos, he obviously has learned how to downshift better than any of us can. The point is that if you want to be a pro driver you better be way better than us club racers. The year before Leh turned pro (only 19 years old) he won about 10 races in the GTC 3 class in PCA, which is an extremely competitive class. He didn't just beat us - he killed us.

Geo

That pretty much doesn't work either. It's a common misconception. The owner of the backmarker WC or GA car is going to say, write me a check THIIIIISSSSS BIG and you can drive this weekend.

The only car owners who are going to say, "hey, come drive my car" are going to be the guys at the sharp end of the grid and they are going to be looking for the best of the best of the best of a young crop of drivers that they can sign to a contract for peanuts before they are they next great thing and their side of the contract will allow them to drop you like a flaming turd if you don't live up to expectations pretty quickly.

VERY rare is the situation when any car owner takes in a up and coming driver and says "drive my car and I'll pay you this much" regardless of what you've won in the past. More often than not a major series champion is told "this is how big the check must be to drive my car."