Anyone here done the Skip Barber schools?
08-16-2005, 01:27 PM
#46
Pro Racing?.....fahgeddaboudit... even the guys that do the whole deal Geo described... (writing 6-figure checks the whole way..) maybe about 2 in 10 end up in a paying ride... sheesh... easier to become a movie star... there were probably 20 guys racing against Paul Tracy when he was coming up..... what happened to the other 19???
Racing's about three things.... money, desire, and more money. if you are a rich zillionaire its a piece of cake... lots of guys started successful racing careers in their middle age... and they mostly have one thing in common.... they were already rich as SH*T!
IF money is an issue, IMHO skip skippy... take the $3K and use it to actually race... no experince like experience... best way to learn to race is just to race.
If you already have a Porsche, PCA CR is a good venue..."reasonably" affordable and competition at alot of different levels... on a lower budget, Spec Miata is cheap and very competitive... if you have any talent this is a good place to find out.... also, I have friends doing NASA and think is is a great series, and one you can do with a cheaper car, like a Honda, VW, or a Mustang...
Be realistic about your skilll level and drive accordingly and you can have alot of fun and become a better driver than you can ever be doing DE only... oh, and BTW... get your degree... maybe a Masters and a good job, and bust your ***...
Then race on weekends.
This has two financial benefits.... First, you won;t waste your money hanging around in bars, and eating expensive dinners out, and loading up your closet with pricy fashionable clothes...Second, you won't meet any women, so you never have to worry about paying for an expensive ring, putting kids through college, etc.... so it should all sum to zero...
Racing's about three things.... money, desire, and more money. if you are a rich zillionaire its a piece of cake... lots of guys started successful racing careers in their middle age... and they mostly have one thing in common.... they were already rich as SH*T!
IF money is an issue, IMHO skip skippy... take the $3K and use it to actually race... no experince like experience... best way to learn to race is just to race.
If you already have a Porsche, PCA CR is a good venue..."reasonably" affordable and competition at alot of different levels... on a lower budget, Spec Miata is cheap and very competitive... if you have any talent this is a good place to find out.... also, I have friends doing NASA and think is is a great series, and one you can do with a cheaper car, like a Honda, VW, or a Mustang...
Be realistic about your skilll level and drive accordingly and you can have alot of fun and become a better driver than you can ever be doing DE only... oh, and BTW... get your degree... maybe a Masters and a good job, and bust your ***...
Then race on weekends.
This has two financial benefits.... First, you won;t waste your money hanging around in bars, and eating expensive dinners out, and loading up your closet with pricy fashionable clothes...Second, you won't meet any women, so you never have to worry about paying for an expensive ring, putting kids through college, etc.... so it should all sum to zero...
08-16-2005, 01:43 PM
#47
Race Director
Originally Posted by JCP911S
...Second, you won't meet any women, so you never have to worry about paying for an expensive ring, putting kids through college, etc.... so it should all sum to zero...
And I NEVER met any women at the track.
08-16-2005, 01:47 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
You guys crack me up.... so I guess I shouldn't be so quick to get my girlfriend to the track?
Rick, Based on Leh's skills... do yout think he will be able to duplicate the lifestyle he has now one day as a professional racecar driver?
Rick, Based on Leh's skills... do yout think he will be able to duplicate the lifestyle he has now one day as a professional racecar driver?
08-16-2005, 02:19 PM
#49
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Mitch,
That 's a very good question - I suppose it depends on just how good he gets - at a recent test day at Mid-Ohio Leh was working with Wolf Henzler. Neither had seen the track before. By the end of the day, Leh was about 1 second off Henzler's pace. That probably puts Leh in the top 20 Cup car drivers in the world. Based on that, I'd say that Leh might do pretty good !!
That 's a very good question - I suppose it depends on just how good he gets - at a recent test day at Mid-Ohio Leh was working with Wolf Henzler. Neither had seen the track before. By the end of the day, Leh was about 1 second off Henzler's pace. That probably puts Leh in the top 20 Cup car drivers in the world. Based on that, I'd say that Leh might do pretty good !!
08-16-2005, 03:34 PM
#50
Originally Posted by Rick Longano
Mitch,
That 's a very good question - I suppose it depends on just how good he gets - at a recent test day at Mid-Ohio Leh was working with Wolf Henzler. Neither had seen the track before. By the end of the day, Leh was about 1 second off Henzler's pace. That probably puts Leh in the top 20 Cup car drivers in the world. Based on that, I'd say that Leh might do pretty good !!
That 's a very good question - I suppose it depends on just how good he gets - at a recent test day at Mid-Ohio Leh was working with Wolf Henzler. Neither had seen the track before. By the end of the day, Leh was about 1 second off Henzler's pace. That probably puts Leh in the top 20 Cup car drivers in the world. Based on that, I'd say that Leh might do pretty good !!
08-16-2005, 04:18 PM
#53
BTW... not discounting schools... they are great if you can afford them, but I wouldn't take money away from the racing budget... IMHO if you want to do a school, do a season of racing before you go... it will probably be alot more useful
08-16-2005, 04:27 PM
#54
Three Wheelin'
Skip Barber was a waste of money, but it was cool to wreck at in the uphill at Lime Rock ( I was VERY green!) then jump into another car with no worries. I'd match the type of racing you want to do with the school... ala I should have done Panoz school b/c I race closed wheel.
08-16-2005, 04:51 PM
#55
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racing school
Skippy is great. Go have fun. Go home buy a car and race PCA or Scca. If you have the talent you will rise fast. If not you will have fun trying.
08-16-2005, 06:58 PM
#56
Race Director
Regarding schools, my experience came in the following order (just for clarification):
Auto-X
Karts
Spenard-David Racing School (David Empringham was my instructor)
SCCA School
Regional SCCA IT racing
By far and a away, I learned much more from karts than all the others combined x3 (at least). Karts totally prepared me for SCCA club racing (and more). I cannot say that school wasn't worth it. I can't say it was either. First it gave me experience in an actual race car. Second I did learn something about lines from one specific corner and that has been invaluable to me at every new race track I've been to since. But that was almost a fluke due to the nature of the one corner and how I was misjudging it. I found ways of applying what I learned to other corners I've encountered.
I don't think racing school did squat to prepare me for racing. It was fun to drive Reynard FF2000s (only 2 years old at that point), but that was about it. It had some value to me, but I think I would have learned a buttload more at a single DE with a good instructor.
Auto-X
Karts
Spenard-David Racing School (David Empringham was my instructor)
SCCA School
Regional SCCA IT racing
By far and a away, I learned much more from karts than all the others combined x3 (at least). Karts totally prepared me for SCCA club racing (and more). I cannot say that school wasn't worth it. I can't say it was either. First it gave me experience in an actual race car. Second I did learn something about lines from one specific corner and that has been invaluable to me at every new race track I've been to since. But that was almost a fluke due to the nature of the one corner and how I was misjudging it. I found ways of applying what I learned to other corners I've encountered.
I don't think racing school did squat to prepare me for racing. It was fun to drive Reynard FF2000s (only 2 years old at that point), but that was about it. It had some value to me, but I think I would have learned a buttload more at a single DE with a good instructor.
08-16-2005, 08:29 PM
#57
Race Car
Skippy School review
I took my 3 day school loooong time ago, when they ran Club Fords. CF
It made a HUGE difference in my skills and attitude.
Terry Earwood, Jim Pace and Pete Argsinger(sp?). all pro drivers with distinguished careers. and what a great fun bunch of guys... for me that was the best part. class room talk riddled with war stories, not a bit boring.
The cockpits in the cars are very tight, and I was somewhat claustrophobic. also difficult to shift, peddles very tight, (wheel between legs) and of course these are school cars, so they show some wear and tear. and don't forget the open wheel cars carry an extra risk. (big air!)
What was great was they put the 3 instructors at different corners, and let you run. each took notes, and when you pulled into the pits, they stick a radio in your ear, and you get feedback from each turn. go out and try again, come in for more coaching. excellent.
oh, and when its all over the instructors and mechanics run a 'race' wow, what these guy can do with a car.... and the mechanics are typically working to race, so they are helpful too.
at that time skippy ran a race series, arrive and drive.... one or the whole season. great if you have $$$.
the 3 day school is 1/2 the required schools for a scca licence (and should work for nasa, pca, and pboc)
Finally, a one design series where cubic bucks doesn't have a huge advantage is the way to go (imho). spec944, 944cup, maybe some stock 911s, spec miata, and of course Karts!
Karts will give you the most bang for the buck, no suspension to get in the way of mistakes. but again, most go carts are open wheeled.
It made a HUGE difference in my skills and attitude.
Terry Earwood, Jim Pace and Pete Argsinger(sp?). all pro drivers with distinguished careers. and what a great fun bunch of guys... for me that was the best part. class room talk riddled with war stories, not a bit boring.
The cockpits in the cars are very tight, and I was somewhat claustrophobic. also difficult to shift, peddles very tight, (wheel between legs) and of course these are school cars, so they show some wear and tear. and don't forget the open wheel cars carry an extra risk. (big air!)
What was great was they put the 3 instructors at different corners, and let you run. each took notes, and when you pulled into the pits, they stick a radio in your ear, and you get feedback from each turn. go out and try again, come in for more coaching. excellent.
oh, and when its all over the instructors and mechanics run a 'race' wow, what these guy can do with a car.... and the mechanics are typically working to race, so they are helpful too.
at that time skippy ran a race series, arrive and drive.... one or the whole season. great if you have $$$.
the 3 day school is 1/2 the required schools for a scca licence (and should work for nasa, pca, and pboc)
Finally, a one design series where cubic bucks doesn't have a huge advantage is the way to go (imho). spec944, 944cup, maybe some stock 911s, spec miata, and of course Karts!
Karts will give you the most bang for the buck, no suspension to get in the way of mistakes. but again, most go carts are open wheeled.
08-16-2005, 08:39 PM
#58
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Well, here's the thing, I'm hittin the track tomorrow, in my 924S, with street tires. I'm gonna be as agressive as possible, and turn the fastest laps I can, I'm gonna experiment with suspension setups (firmness of shocks, rear sway position) and tire pressures, and get what I can out of it. My buddy is a noob on the track, with a 951... similar suspension setup. lets see if I can't kick his *** 
as for the loan thing, that wasn't for a season, that was for a school....the BMW racing center, in spain. that's the school Schumi went to... I've yet to hear from them, and I'm unsure if I will, but if I get nothing by tomorrow night, I'm whippin out the telephone. I'm gonna at least rattle some cages. Wish me luck, and as always, even though it seems I get hostile, I'm always appreciative of your advice.
as for the loan thing, that wasn't for a season, that was for a school....the BMW racing center, in spain. that's the school Schumi went to... I've yet to hear from them, and I'm unsure if I will, but if I get nothing by tomorrow night, I'm whippin out the telephone. I'm gonna at least rattle some cages. Wish me luck, and as always, even though it seems I get hostile, I'm always appreciative of your advice.
08-16-2005, 11:09 PM
#60
C4S you didn't get back to me on what NCC means. I asked because I think there are a lot of racing school grads in the top ranks of each division. If NCC meant Nextel cup then the figure is somewhere over 30% of the starters have been to a driving school. I think 30% is a conservative number. In events like Indy500 and Grand Am the number is well over 30%.
I have done a Skippy 3-day and been doing DE for 10 years...regularly for about 6 of that. I would say that I felt that the 3-day racing school didn't teach me anything new but the feedback was invaluable and if I only had one year of DE under my belt and then did the 3-day I would be in a similar place I am now. Basically it's a major shortcut and if you do it early it teaches you the good habits as opposed to a lot of bad habits people get from being self taught. It also introduced me to racing specific situations that I have not experienced yet because I haven't raced. So perhaps in that sense it will pay heavier dividends once I get into club racing.
I have done a Skippy 3-day and been doing DE for 10 years...regularly for about 6 of that. I would say that I felt that the 3-day racing school didn't teach me anything new but the feedback was invaluable and if I only had one year of DE under my belt and then did the 3-day I would be in a similar place I am now. Basically it's a major shortcut and if you do it early it teaches you the good habits as opposed to a lot of bad habits people get from being self taught. It also introduced me to racing specific situations that I have not experienced yet because I haven't raced. So perhaps in that sense it will pay heavier dividends once I get into club racing.