Rezal

My condolences go out to the family.

I was supposed to be there that weekend but decided to bail as my car was not going to be ready. I love the Glen but also fear it as there is hardly any run-off room. The drive up the esses is an adrenalin rush but god forbid you lift. The bus-stop has bitten many experience drivers but in general, a wipe-out there means body work, wherelse, without it, you would be flying off at the end of the back-straight.

A friend fwd'ed me an e-mail written by Todd Sager of AWE Tuning. I believe he's currently the head instructor for RTR. It is not my e-mail to reprint it here, and don't have the link to it, but he mentioned the need to review DE safety rules, going as far as to suggest 5-pt harnesses and neck support devices.

I've been running a stock set-up but the fact that this one is closer to home for me, I am reconsidering how I view DEs now (I knew it was serious stuff but this is a totally different level).

silver44

This is indeed sad and has been with me on my mind ever since I first read the thread. I would also like to help do something for the family if there is any kind of collection or something. Its a risk we all take but hopefully we do everything we can to reduce as much of the risk as possible. I had always planned on buying a Hans device this will just speed up the process. There is too much at stake not to do everything you can for your personal safety. My thoughts and prayers are with the family....very sad indeed.

ZBlue996Kam

There are many benefits and risks involve in our sport be it DE or Racing.

I become a much better street driver since I picked up DE and Racing. There were a few times on the road that my DE/Racing experience saved me from getting into serious accidents caused by other careless drivers.

If you drive regularly on public road, you are at risk.

I rather get in an accident on track than public road.

Rezal

Basic physical, mental and mechanical fatique. Your body is exhausted - possbily dehydrated. Your mind has been on the edge for hours. Your tires are worn. Your brakes are hot and a tad spongy. You "think" you know the track real well by now. Etc., etc.

kurt M

"No flames please, but is this sport worth it? It's one thing to play golf, at a lower level than Tiger Woods, with less talent & knowlege of the game.....but it's rarely life threatening.......

It's another to play w/this kind of hardware, at these speeds, with barely enough knowlege and education to be risking your life, and the life of others."

Yes, I feel that it is well worth it. I think it is a safe sport and safer than many that do not have any learning potential that can save you and others that might be in your street car. You learn nothing but golf playng golf.

Two points to think about.

1. As was reported in the news clip this tragic accident is the first car club related fatality at Watkins Glen. I might venture a guess that many folks have been killed while driving to the Glen track or other area attractions. The fact that this does not happen with any frequency at all is the reason it is news. Dying of a heart attack or of lung cancer is not note worthy news except to those who are friends or are closely related. They are far more prevalent but we continue to do the things that promote them. We eat poorly and smoke.

2. One very positive aspect of this recreational activity is you are learning to better control your car and be better aware of what is going on around you while street driving. I bet DE drivers are less likely to be in an accident overall as they are better drivers that the population as a whole.
Why do I think this? Most folks go to high school and learn to drive. Many go on to higher learning and get advanced degrees in this or that yet we don't advance our driving past the high school level at all. It is considered poor form to not go to college but OK to drive the rest of your life with a 16 year olds training. Many years of street driving help a bit with regards to judgment but do little as far as technique. You only practice poor habits and continue to do things that are not going to get you out of an accident. Things like looking only at the car in front, not looking far enough ahead, over correcting, panic slamming the brakes rather than maintaining control and driving around something and a host of other things I see all the time as an instructor.

In the USA you are far more likely to be killed by a PIG than die at the track DE or racing.



My heartfelt condolences to his family and friends.

DeepFreeze

End of the day danger zone is when, from what i understand, a driver becomes over confident because he/she has been on the track for many sessions. Fatigue, and impatience also play a part.

the truth is, none of us but God's few know what happend at this DE.

Whenever I drive at a given risk and limit- my heart and mind become one, but after many a mountain pass, uphill and downhill runs in my 3.2L N/A, you have to practice, and pratice, and then place faith in your practice. I have been in situations many a times alone, because I dont want to be responsible for killing someone else. This has , however, allowed me to hone a few skills, which pitted with my helmet and restraints, will hopefully never have to save my life.

I am so regretful the daughter was present, I have a friend who takes his daughter with him, he is no doubt a good father, but no one ever ventures to the Track, and thinks about dying that day.

I am so sorry she had to be there for that.

Godspeed

Geo

The end of the day is always more dangerous. This applies to a lot of things, not just racing. You're fatigued. You think you're doing great. You get complacent. You want to get in that one last good run. You make mistakes.

My sister forever screwed up her knee the first time she went skiing. A friend she was with said something about calling it a night and she said "just one more run." Her friend told her "You know, that's when all the injuries seem to happen." I've never forgotten that. I've quit many a thing a bit early (from skiing to DE to woodworking, etc.) because I didn't want to do one too many.

DanS911

I agree, yesterday I watched a guy lose it on the street after he locked up the brakes going into a red light. It really wasn't a big deal but as soon as the car started to rotate (rears were locked up) he paniced and WAY overcorrected. It was absolutly clear that this driver had never been anywhere near the limits of a car and, although he missed everything (including me) he spun across two lanes and up on to a median, it could have been very messy.

Car control skills save many lives on the street every day.

Bailey-86-MA

My thoughts and prayers go out to Erik's family, friends and the entire DE community. There is danger in what we like to do, accidents will happen, and I am always so thankful when there are no serious injuries. I was at WGI Mon - Weds and can speak to 2 incidents, one at Turn 6 where Erik's occured (a light brushing of the wall fortunately), and one at Turn 10 (car is likely totalled). Fortunately these incidents did not result in any personal injuries. I had a near fire due to an oil leak and was close to pulling my newly installed fire supression system as I stopped inside the bus stop. All this being said, I look forward to my next track outing. I am sure Erik enjoyed these events as we do, and had to be aware of the risks. Safety should be a priority when we consider equipment for our cars, and I also find it helful for me to respect my car's and my abilities (which are far inferior to the car).

Phokaioglaukos

Earlier this year I drove in the same Green run group with Erik at several events, pitting with him at a couple of them. I enjoyed talking with him. I also have driven with Erik's instructor, both as a passenger and as a student, and I have immense respect for him.

I was glad to see Larry's post earlier in this thread which has all the data that it seems people know at this point. I hope in due course that we'll hear more of the facts of the incident so that we can draw from it what lessons we can. From what I know of the situation, I am not very hopeful there will be lessons of general applicability to be had, but we should learn what we can.

As you would expect, the mood at the event following the incident was subdued. I felt a twinge the next morning when I drove past that spot on the track, but our instructors were still first rate, the track was still where it had been, the able WGI corner workers were still on duty, the other participants were still coureteous and my car was still capable. I took it down a notch or more that next session out, but the second session felt better than it ever had before. I very much enjoy WGI! I did skip the third session so as to get home three hours earlier, but I am eager to return to the Glen.

I'll be at Shenandoah this weekend with anther PCA group and I'll be cautious (as always, I believe), but I will enjoy myself and I expect to see tangible improvement in my car handling--just as I have at every other event. And the HANS I ordered about a month ago should be here on Wednesday. I plan to wear it under the Schroth 6-point harness I installed before my first WGI event a couple of weeks ago.

Jack Kramer

Just to clarify, Todd is one of our senior instructors, but not our Chief Instructor.

I was at the event and like everyone in our DE extended family, was incredibly devastated by the incident.

Words can't explain the hush that came over the garage when we all learned of Erik's fate, nor the numbness that dominated the entire event on Sunday.

I did not drive on Sunday, other than to demonstrate the proper line thru the esses to one of my students. My head just wasn't into it and as we all know, the track demands 100% concentration.

As you can imagine, there’ve been a whole lot of soul searching conversations between friends and family as a result of this. There’s no “right” answer, as everyone’s situation is different.

Personally, I love driving, I love instructing, and I love riding with my friends. All of these put me in personal danger. I’m also a bicyclist, as are many others on this forum. My most serious accident from a bodily harm standpoint was with another cyclist on a bike trail. So many things we do in life are dangerous. I would not want to live a perfectly safe life. However, I also realize that my tolerance for risk is going to be different than others. This is something each of us has to work out for ourselves with our loved ones and I know I would stop it all in an instant if my wife asked me to.

However, whatever our personal risk tolerance, we all should do whatever we can to reduce the risk to a minimum. A buddy and I were talking after we learned Erik’s fate. He said he was going to by a Hans device. I said I just purchased one but had not mounted it yet. He asked why not. I said I hadn’t had the time yet. He then said, “I bet you spent a few hours prepping your car for the event didn’t you?” Point - set - and match… He was 100% right. I had plenty of time to do it, I just chose not to.

Trust me; it will be installed by my next event.

Jack

m21sniper

Eric died doing what he loved.

We should all be so lucky.

andy sanborn

Our condolences To Erik's familty too.

Two weeks ago, i stood in the woods just by the laces, working radio for a fellow compeititior, and watched my wife in the same group (typically we race in the same group, but for some reason we were in different groups last week) My wife and I have several years racing, De's and any auto sports we can do. She is fast (defending North East Champ), capable and aware of all the issues sourounding racing or running De's. About 1/2 way through the race, she was just flying down into the laces and the car got loose.......As she was trying to gather the car back up and quite frankly putting up a good fight to regain control, a competitior came down into the laces (obviouly drivng off the nose of his car and not looking ahead) and T-boned my wife between the rear wheel and her door.....all right in front of me at a closing rate of 60-80mph

fortunetly, she runs a 14 point rollcage (GT-2 car), Hans, good belt system and all the bells and whistles needed for safety. As she does not like to use a radio, i was sprinting my fat *** through the woods as i could not see her in what was left of the car. Fortunetley, the driver that hit her also jumped out of his wrecked car and ran to her. I could see that he was talking to her and shortly he gave the thumbs up. She couldn't get out of the car, but due to real safety items was safe in the car (other then a consussion and maybe some broken ribs)

During our 8 hour ride home, we had some time to talk about it.

All of us on this list love to drive our cars, some faster than others. After participating in 6 earlier DE's it would appear that Erik enjoyed it too. Life is too short to live in the bubble. He was living and hopefully his untimely end was by doing something he loved.

As a note to the Glen, the 6 or 7 million the Frances put into the track in improvments is and was needed, but remember the pavement was not changed at all, so the track is not faster........expecially in the laces. Just because they moved the armco back 30 feet in the laces sure makes it look like it's a lot easier turn and faster............but it's not

Don't be afraid to live like there is no tomorrow

Tony356993

My wife and I have driven with RTR for years as well as many other regions. We had spoken to the track chair on Friday before the accident and told him that RTR runs a well organized and safe DE program compared to some other car clubs and other PCA regions. The instructors are top notch. Safety is emphasized at every meeting and classrom. Some DE's we have attended for other marques and other PCA regions have little or NO classroom. Driving at high speeds is always a risk......on a track or off. As Jack stated above, riding a bike is a risk, surfing is a risk, amusement rides are a risk, swimming is a risk....etc. I ordered my HANS device today. My wife was in classrom with Eric at the RTR events for over a year as they both started DE's about the same time and he was very enthusiastic about driving and learning. God bless him and his family. All we can do is to prepare our cars and ourselves the safest way possible.

Tony and Sharon

TheOtherEric

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4gen2/msgs/860824.phtml

ZBlue- we're not discussing this out of some childish morbid curiosity. We're discussing this so that we can learn from this tragedy and use that knowledge to make the track a safer place so that it doesn't happen again. It's very healthy and important that we take lessons from these events.

Erik's family is in my thoughts.