Fatality at WGI DE this weekend
08-01-2005, 11:11 AM
#46
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Larry, I was with David K (NNJR bunch) I think we met for 2 secs - didnt think about it until I spotted your posting.
Is there anything we can do for the daughter or wife? it would be nice to send something on behalf of rennlisters maybe? Im not sure..
Is there anything we can do for the daughter or wife? it would be nice to send something on behalf of rennlisters maybe? Im not sure..
08-01-2005, 11:37 AM
#47
Originally Posted by Greg Fishman
What do you mean by it could not possibly have been avoided? Did he have a mechanical failure?
All I meant was, based on almost 20 years of DE and Instructing, that despite all the procedures and precautions, accidents occur on the track for a variety of reasons. By definition, if there were anything that anyone could possibly do beforehand to aviod them, they would do it, and they would not happen.
Fortunately they are relatively infrequest, and vast majority of them result in nothing more than damage to the car. There was nothing here that I personally am aware of that would indicate that this was anything but an extremely tragic accident.
08-01-2005, 11:47 AM
#48
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Originally Posted by JCP911S
All I meant was, based on almost 20 years of DE and Instructing, that despite all the procedures and precautions, accidents occur on the track for a variety of reasons. By definition, if there were anything that anyone could possibly do beforehand to aviod them, they would do it, and they would not happen.
08-01-2005, 12:20 PM
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My heart goes out to his family. It is truly unfortunate.
I also feel badly for the instructor. It would weigh heavily on me as well.
I do agree with others that it would be helpful to find out as much as possible about the cause of this. We all have loved ones and we all try to balance our safety and our enjoyment of life for their sake.
I also feel badly for the instructor. It would weigh heavily on me as well.
I do agree with others that it would be helpful to find out as much as possible about the cause of this. We all have loved ones and we all try to balance our safety and our enjoyment of life for their sake.
08-01-2005, 12:22 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by Larry Herman
I was there & know Erik's instructor very well. This was probably Erik's 5th or 6th event. He was in the lowest run group. He was a slower driver, but aware and not particularly aggressive. He had been solo'd before at prior events.
This was his 6th half-hour session on the track, and he was just solo'd. He was entering the laces of the boot (turn 6) where it was surmised that he dropped 2 wheels off on the outside and spun into the tire wall/guardrail. The details are still quite sketchy as it was the first day for the corner worker, and as of yesterday afternoon, we did not hear from the driver who was immediately behind him. He was wearing a five point harness, and it was estimated that he hit the wall at about 80 mph.
Erik was not in the best of health, and it is still unknown whether it was purely driver error, or some sort of seizure or spasm momentarily distracted him. There are many theories, and we may never know. From what I do know, Erik's instructor feels very badly, and is helping the family with arrangements. If I hear any more, I will post it.
On another note, I didn't realize that other rennlisters on this forum were there. Too bad we didn't meet up.
This was his 6th half-hour session on the track, and he was just solo'd. He was entering the laces of the boot (turn 6) where it was surmised that he dropped 2 wheels off on the outside and spun into the tire wall/guardrail. The details are still quite sketchy as it was the first day for the corner worker, and as of yesterday afternoon, we did not hear from the driver who was immediately behind him. He was wearing a five point harness, and it was estimated that he hit the wall at about 80 mph.
Erik was not in the best of health, and it is still unknown whether it was purely driver error, or some sort of seizure or spasm momentarily distracted him. There are many theories, and we may never know. From what I do know, Erik's instructor feels very badly, and is helping the family with arrangements. If I hear any more, I will post it.
On another note, I didn't realize that other rennlisters on this forum were there. Too bad we didn't meet up.
We were at a Road America event several years ago were someone had a brain anurism right in the big straight and went up against the guardrail sideways and stopped right in front of the ambulance... ...in that particular case, the only reason he lived was because the whole incident happened in front of a medical team (literally).. ...had it happened on the expressway, there is no way medical attention would have made it to him in time because minutes and seconds counted!
...hopefully we will all find out what happened in this case as it is very sad news indeed
...very sorry to hear it
08-01-2005, 12:50 PM
#51
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Condolences to the family and friends.
I instruct extensively for BMW CCA and NASA, to keep seat time up for my racing. Every time I sign a student off, I tell them to be safe and not to make a fool of me when they're out on their own, in hopes that it will remind them to take it easy. This is my worst nightmare as an instructor.
In CCA DE's, we don't allow group C or D drivers (novice) to track by themselves. Only A and B drivers get signed off, and then only if they display the attitude and ability that enables us to do so. Maybe other clubs should asopt this policy.
According to the articles posted, this happened at 4:30 on Saturday. The notorious "End of the Day" danger zone. Keep this in mind, DE'ers!
In the end game, though, it's track work, and sh*t happens, whether health-related, skill related, mechanically-related, or other-car-related. Be careful out there.
I instruct extensively for BMW CCA and NASA, to keep seat time up for my racing. Every time I sign a student off, I tell them to be safe and not to make a fool of me when they're out on their own, in hopes that it will remind them to take it easy. This is my worst nightmare as an instructor.
In CCA DE's, we don't allow group C or D drivers (novice) to track by themselves. Only A and B drivers get signed off, and then only if they display the attitude and ability that enables us to do so. Maybe other clubs should asopt this policy.
According to the articles posted, this happened at 4:30 on Saturday. The notorious "End of the Day" danger zone. Keep this in mind, DE'ers!
In the end game, though, it's track work, and sh*t happens, whether health-related, skill related, mechanically-related, or other-car-related. Be careful out there.
08-01-2005, 12:53 PM
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No flames please, but is this sport worth it? It's one thing to play golf, at a lower level than Tiger Woods, with less talent & knowlege of the game.....but it's rarely life threatening.......
It's another to play w/this kind of hardware, at these speeds, with barely enough knowlege and education to be risking your life, and the life of others.
This is very sad news.
It's another to play w/this kind of hardware, at these speeds, with barely enough knowlege and education to be risking your life, and the life of others.
This is very sad news.
08-01-2005, 12:57 PM
#54
Please do not discuss any details of the accident in a public forum for the sake of Erik's family and DE program in general.
God knows who is watching this thread!
If you insists on getting information about the incident, please contact Riesentoter Region Track chairman.
God knows who is watching this thread!
If you insists on getting information about the incident, please contact Riesentoter Region Track chairman.
08-01-2005, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RLandis
No flames please, but is this sport worth it? It's one thing to play golf, at a lower level than Tiger Woods, with less talent & knowlege of the game.....but it's rarely life threatening.......
It's another to play w/this kind of hardware, at these speeds, with barely enough knowlege and education to be risking your life, and the life of others.
This is very sad news.
It's another to play w/this kind of hardware, at these speeds, with barely enough knowlege and education to be risking your life, and the life of others.
This is very sad news.
I've heard of people dying from getting a golf ball in the skull.. and even heard of someone loosing ability to walk from a golf ball in the spine... (never mind the lighting strikes)
..heck, I've been golfing a whopping 3 times in my life and the 2nd time I went, I witnessed someone getting a golf ball in the back and going down (and was o.k. after about 5 minutes, got up and walked off the course)...
..of course DEs are not the safest sport there is.... but I knew that going into it from the start...
...At any rate, this such a very tragic event and as I said, it is very sad news to hear...
08-01-2005, 01:38 PM
#57
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We are all shocked and saddened. This is something that happened in our community, and this brings the tragedy that much closer to home. We feel for his family, and we have our own sober second thoughts.
As others have said or implied, though, I think it says little about our sport. Personally, I think it much more likely that I will be injured on the way to or from the track than on the track. This occurred to me driving to around Montreal to Mont-Tremblant, when I realized I felt safer on the track.
As others have said or implied, though, I think it says little about our sport. Personally, I think it much more likely that I will be injured on the way to or from the track than on the track. This occurred to me driving to around Montreal to Mont-Tremblant, when I realized I felt safer on the track.
08-01-2005, 01:47 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by Bill N
As others have said or implied, though, I think it says little about our sport. Personally, I think it much more likely that I will be injured on the way to or from the track than on the track. This occurred to me driving to around Montreal to Mont-Tremblant, when I realized I felt safer on the track.
08-01-2005, 02:00 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by RLandis
No flames please, but is this sport worth it? It's one thing to play golf, at a lower level than Tiger Woods, with less talent & knowlege of the game.....but it's rarely life threatening.......
It's another to play w/this kind of hardware, at these speeds, with barely enough knowlege and education to be risking your life, and the life of others.
This is very sad news.
It's another to play w/this kind of hardware, at these speeds, with barely enough knowlege and education to be risking your life, and the life of others.
This is very sad news.
I know the risks and I accept them each and every time I enter a race track. Something bad happening does not change the risk.
When I raced karts I was on the receiving end of a very bad accident. The guy behind me decided my bumper would slow him down just as well as his brakes. What he didn't count on was when he hit me, he bounced over my bumper and hit me. He hit my shoulder and my head. And he came to a stop directly on top of my head (I kid you not). Two things literally saved my life: 1) my Bell helmet and 2) my neck collar. With the angle my head was turned to look through the hairpin turn, without the neck collar I have zero doubt he would have broken my neck. Also, when he came to a stop I had 325 lbs on top of my head. Again, I feel pretty strongly that the only thing that kept my neck from breaking was the collar.
I ended up with a pretty bad concussion and was out of work for 6 weeks. When I came back my boss asked me if I was going to stop racing. I told him no because the risks did not change because I got hurt and I knew before I went racing what the risks were. I think had I stopped after being hurt (assuming the injury doesn't create greater likelihood of permanent injury should something occur again) I would have been stupid for even starting racing.
IMHO, if you are questioning the risks, that's not a bad thing to do. If you are doing it because you don't think it can happen to you or that you can't be killed in DE, you shouldn't be on the track. This is NOT commentary either way regarding Erik because I don't know where he stood and I wouldn't comment about him anyway because that just wouldn't be right. So please, don't anyone take my response the wrong way in light of this trageday. The question was asked and this is my candid answer.
If the risk is not worth it, don't do it.
To respond to the second comment (even though it wasn't a question), all I have to say is that we all have the capability to drive within our ability. Things do still happen though so all I can say is see above.
Godspeed Erik.
08-01-2005, 02:32 PM
#60
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Condolescences to the family. This definitely puts things into perspective.
Could you elaborate on this a little more?
Originally Posted by SRL
According to the articles posted, this happened at 4:30 on Saturday. The notorious "End of the Day" danger zone. Keep this in mind, DE'ers!