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Old 06-10-2024, 07:21 PM
  #766  
Veloce Raptor
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Originally Posted by Gary R.
I'll be the first, I will not attend a PCA race until Todd is reinstated!!

Hahahaha you live in Spain
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Old 06-11-2024, 05:00 AM
  #767  
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Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
Hahahaha you live in Spain
I was planning a triumphant return to the homeland and an "Arrive and Drive" with Bela at EPS, now that is OUT!
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Old 06-11-2024, 09:47 AM
  #768  
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Originally Posted by Gary R.
I was planning a triumphant return to the homeland and an "Arrive and Drive" with Bela at EPS, now that is OUT!
HA! Well...it would be great to see you return & race again regardless...
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Old 06-11-2024, 10:18 AM
  #769  
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Any other club racers willing to go on record here that they're going to boycott PCA races until Luigi is reinstated?
Old 06-11-2024, 10:31 AM
  #770  
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Originally Posted by Manifold
Any other club racers willing to go on record here that they're going to boycott PCA races until Luigi is reinstated?
I don’t think that is what Luigi wants, and wouldn’t really help. PCA National only administers the races. All the financial risk is on the region hosting the race. If everyone boycotted the races it wouldn’t affect PCA National one bit with respect to finances. You would just have a bunch of individual regions losing a ton of money and putting future races in jeopardy.

Pete
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Old 06-11-2024, 10:39 AM
  #771  
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Originally Posted by Pete Debusmann
I don’t think that is what Luigi wants, and wouldn’t really help. PCA National only administers the races. All the financial risk is on the region hosting the race. If everyone boycotted the races it wouldn’t affect PCA National one bit with respect to finances. You would just have a bunch of individual regions losing a ton of money and putting future races in jeopardy.

Pete
... and then the regions would put pressure on National to change the policy. Right now, Luigi is basically fighting this fight alone, but on behalf of everyone.
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Old 06-11-2024, 10:48 AM
  #772  
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I think you are overestimating the pressure a region can put on PCA National.
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Old 06-11-2024, 10:52 AM
  #773  
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Originally Posted by Pete Debusmann
I think you are overestimating the pressure a region can put on PCA National.
So the National people are overlords who have unchecked power to make policies which ruin things at the regional level? Is that the structure of this car club? Have the members signed off on that?
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Old 06-11-2024, 10:54 AM
  #774  
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Originally Posted by Pete Debusmann
I think you are overestimating the pressure a region can put on PCA National.
+1^
From the experience of losing approx $20k on a single race: no amount of pressure on National resulted in any change. So the region ate it, and never repeated the event. This was despite decent attendance, fantastic weather, a highly praised venue with plenty of volunteers (local region people) to support the race. The financial pain was too great. Why would the region take the risk and repeat the loss without some safety net?

Without a reasonable chance of break-even (or at least a minimal loss) it’s a BIG financial risk.

Last edited by needmoregarage; 06-11-2024 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 06-11-2024, 11:04 AM
  #775  
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Originally Posted by Manifold
So the National people are overlords who have unchecked power to make policies which ruin things at the regional level? Is that the structure of this car club? Have the members signed off on that?
Hence Luigi's writing about the rules and bylaws.
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Old 06-11-2024, 11:19 AM
  #776  
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Originally Posted by needmoregarage
+1^
From the experience of losing approx $20k on a single race: no amount of pressure on National resulted in any change. So the region ate it, and never repeated the event. This was despite decent attendance, fantastic weather, a highly praised venue with plenty of volunteers (local region people) to support the race. The financial pain was too great. Why would the region take the risk and repeat the loss without some safety net?

Without a reasonable chance of break-even (or at least a minimal loss) it’s a BIG financial risk.
Exactly

That is why I noted Luigi doesn’t want racers to boycott. It would be an example of winning a battle but losing the war when there are no more races to attend after the boycott is lifted. I think the term is Pyrrhic victory.
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Old 06-11-2024, 11:22 AM
  #777  
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Originally Posted by Pete Debusmann
Exactly

That is why I noted Luigi doesn’t want racers to boycott. It would be an example of winning a battle but losing the war when there are no more races to attend after the boycott is lifted. I think the term is Pyrrhic victory.
Had to look it up!

From Wikipedia:
A Pyrrhic victory (/ˈpɪrɪk/ PIRR-ik) is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat.[1]
Such a victory negates any true sense of achievement or damages long-term progress.
The phrase originates from a quote from Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose triumph against the Romans in the Battle of Asculum in
279 BC destroyed much of his forces, forcing the end of his campaign

Last edited by needmoregarage; 06-11-2024 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 06-11-2024, 11:25 AM
  #778  
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Pyrrhic for sure. Not the best route to go.

In Luigi’s defense, he makes some really good paddock espresso ….
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Old 06-11-2024, 11:28 AM
  #779  
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Originally Posted by Matt Romanowski
Hence Luigi's writing about the rules and bylaws.
How will the rules and bylaws be enforced? Is a civil lawsuit feasible, or desirable?
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Old 06-11-2024, 12:21 PM
  #780  
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Originally Posted by Manifold
How will the rules and bylaws be enforced? Is a civil lawsuit feasible, or desirable?
My reading of his letter was that he wants them to follow the rules as laid out in the PCA Bylaws, Procedures Manual, and other PCA documents. And while not a lawyer and not staying in a Holiday Inn Express, the Whistleblower action calls for a (self) examination of the processes, procedures, and if they are being followed. I think if they do that honestly, there are some problems that can be addressed. I personally hope and I think everyone who is actually involved hopes that there is no need for any additional action besides fixing the club's procedures and actions to match what the rules say along with being reasonable.
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