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Rolex 24 Hours Daytona

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Old 01-30-2023 | 07:56 AM
  #226  
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Originally Posted by Joey996
First time to Rolex 24. Incredible time for my wife and I. Can’t wait to go back. I do wish that Porsche would have been more competitive but not in the cards with the BoP.
Same here on all accounts…..
Sucked Porsche performed as they did, but wife and I had one of our best times this past week.
Now the tough part, the 18 hour tow home (for me, wife is flying out this afternoon).
Old 01-30-2023 | 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by dgrobs
Same here on all accounts…..
Sucked Porsche performed as they did, but wife and I had one of our best times this past week.
Now the tough part, the 18 hour tow home (for me, wife is flying out this afternoon).
Safe travels Bruce.
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Old 01-30-2023 | 08:29 AM
  #228  
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Sounds like they hamstrung Porsche with a small restrictor and low RPM limit = disappointing
Old 01-30-2023 | 09:11 AM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by BDonaher
Yeah.. Not sure what with up with the Ferrari's either but the BoP seems like it needs some work in GTD. Prototypes were solid.. well.. barring LMP3 which is a joke.
What's up with the LMP3s?
Old 01-30-2023 | 09:45 AM
  #230  
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This is not a BOP or IMSA issue. When the FIA?IMSA prescribe a "performance window", they expect manufacturers to produce something within that window, that can either be adjusted faster or slower with a BOP adjustment. But a 2 1/2s second gap is much further than anyone would have suspected, and likely outside the scope of what a BOP adjustment could fix. The three fastest laps (Hindman, Andlauer, Heylen) were all more than 2 1/2 seconds slower than the AMG's and Astons. Porsche needs to look in the mirror if their new car is significantly slower than their old car.
Old 01-30-2023 | 09:47 AM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by enduro911
I'm always glad to tune into watch Daytona, but this year I've got two gripes.

1) The BOP in GTD was pretty terrible. I'm not sure that I understand how there can be this big of a discrepancy in lap times, especially after testing and qualifying. I'd pay to be a fly on the wall in those meetings, and if anyone knows how they work, I'd love to hear details. I'm sure there are politics involved, but it almost seems like those who set the rules are okay with potentially removing a type of car from a major race just to make sure that they aren't sandbagging, and then letting it catch up over the next couple shorter and less important races.

2) I'm pretty disappointed by the factory's performance...again. Porsche has given away the last two WEC GT championships, and they haven't been as competitive as they have in the past. Yes, they are facing some stiff competition, but I would argue the 919, a car far more complex and one that was being entered by the factory for the first time in a long time, had a better start to its career. If you think they'll make up for this at Le Mans, I've got my eye on that 499P out of Maranello.

I will remain a fan, but I expect more. Onward and upward!
re: Porsche BOP. IMSA probably didn’t have good data. Their BOP methods are better than ACO actually. During IMSA sanctioned tests, teams sand-bag and hide true pace. So IMSA would have had to rely previous years’ data. They look micro-sectors, top speeds etc across all Porsches for eg.

It will even out over the season. Daytona is such an anomaly. Max horsepower matters more than weight to power ratio etc.
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Old 01-30-2023 | 10:17 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by jgiannone
This is not a BOP or IMSA issue. When the FIA?IMSA prescribe a "performance window", they expect manufacturers to produce something within that window, that can either be adjusted faster or slower with a BOP adjustment. But a 2 1/2s second gap is much further than anyone would have suspected, and likely outside the scope of what a BOP adjustment could fix. The three fastest laps (Hindman, Andlauer, Heylen) were all more than 2 1/2 seconds slower than the AMG's and Astons. Porsche needs to look in the mirror if their new car is significantly slower than their old car.
Not exactly - the restrictor they put on the Porsche severely limited the car. Normally IMSA would adjust that during testing and the Roar, but chose not to.
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Old 01-30-2023 | 11:06 AM
  #233  
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If everything else were equal, IMSA would have had to put serious restrictions on the Porsches to equate to a 2 1/2 second deficit. Whether by inlet restrictor, ignition timing, or fuel/air ration, something in the area of 65 HP would have had to have been trimmed, or roughly a 12% decline. If there's a reason why IMSA would want to punish Porsche so aggressively, I can't imagine what it is. I feel bad for the newer entrants who thought they were stepping up to compete, only to struggle as they did. That's a lot of money to spend on a new car that became so uncompetitive. There's something else missing that maybe time will tell.
Old 01-30-2023 | 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by NaroEscape
Not exactly - the restrictor they put on the Porsche severely limited the car. Normally IMSA would adjust that during testing and the Roar, but chose not to.
they probably didn’t have good enough data.
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Old 01-30-2023 | 11:33 AM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by MSR Racer
re: Porsche BOP. IMSA probably didn’t have good data. Their BOP methods are better than SRO.

It will even out over the season. Daytona is such an anomaly. Max horsepower matters more than weight to power ratio etc.
True all of this. IMSA, as does SRO, requires cars to carry their own (the sanctioning body’s) logger. In IMSA, it’s Bosch. While sandbagging and hedging exist, it’s not at all easy to hide anymore, hence qualifying and pit space choice (which no one sandbags for) being scheduled for occurring on the Roar weekend.

All fundamentally new cars (new 992 R, M4 GT3 and 296 GT3) are going to start almost inhumanely pinned back and hobbled, until they see where they are. That’s what’s happening. Over the years, Porsche, then Audi, then Porsche, then Lambo, then Mercedes, then Aston have risen to the top.

The cycle will repeat again…

Last edited by ProCoach; 01-30-2023 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 01-30-2023 | 01:12 PM
  #236  
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Here's the published IMSA tech bulletins for BoP, to compare weights, restrictors, fuel capacity, etc.

2022:
https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uplo...P-05262022.pdf


2023:
https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uplo...P-01242023.pdf
Old 01-30-2023 | 01:14 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by ProCoach
True all of this. IMSA, as does SRO, requires cars to carry their own (the sanctioning body’s) logger. In IMSA, it’s Bosch. While sandbagging and hedging exist, it’s not at all easy to hide anymore, hence qualifying and pit space choice (which no one sandbags for) being scheduled for occurring on the Roar weekend.

All fundamentally new cars (new 992 R, M4 GT3 and 296 GT3) are going to start almost inhumanely pinned back and hobbled, until they see where they are. That’s what’s happening. Over the years, Porsche, then Audi, then Porsche, then Lambo, then Mercedes, then Aston have risen to the top.

The cycle will repeat again…
Yes. The thing is that most teams wont do a true qualifying simulation (low fuel, sticker tires, trimmed out, ProDriver , full send stint) during the ROAR. So there is no way for IMSA to have real data.
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Old 01-30-2023 | 03:24 PM
  #238  
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Doonan said on TV that IMSA was happy with the bop and didn't expect a change.
Let's hope he's wrong.
Old 01-30-2023 | 03:49 PM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by ProCoach
True all of this. IMSA, as does SRO, requires cars to carry their own (the sanctioning body’s) logger. In IMSA, it’s Bosch. While sandbagging and hedging exist, it’s not at all easy to hide anymore, hence qualifying and pit space choice (which no one sandbags for) being scheduled for occurring on the Roar weekend.

All fundamentally new cars (new 992 R, M4 GT3 and 296 GT3) are going to start almost inhumanely pinned back and hobbled, until they see where they are. That’s what’s happening. Over the years, Porsche, then Audi, then Porsche, then Lambo, then Mercedes, then Aston have risen to the top.

The cycle will repeat again…
All this is fine and good IF winning the Rolex 24 - the most prestigious race on the schedule - didn’t mean so much.
Old 01-30-2023 | 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MSR Racer
Yes. The thing is that most teams wont do a true qualifying simulation (low fuel, sticker tires, trimmed out, ProDriver , full send stint) during the ROAR. So there is no way for IMSA to have real data.
But this year had Rolex 24 Qualifying (and as a result, pit box position) held during the Roar.

Last year, they had a 1 hour, 40 minute Qualifying race that determined pit box position and starting position for the Rolex 24 held during the Roar.

Any team that sandbags in qualifying for the main event, held the week before last year and this year, would hurt more than help themselves in many different ways.

Now, I haven't done a full analysis yet, nor have I reviewed the B Pillar report (like GOLD), but I believe some GT cars did go faster in the race than in qualifying, whereas almost none of the prototypes did.

That is to be expected since there are a fair number of pros driving new platforms for the first time and gaining confidence, but there was no breakthrough for any of the teams I looked at.

The Porsches did finish fifth and sixth (out of ten finishers, in front of the new BMW and Ferrari) in GTD Pro.

In GTD, the Wright Motorsport cars finished ninth and eleventh (out of twenty-three finishers) in GTD. The Heylen/Hardwick car turned a fast lap the SAME tenth as they qualified and the Brynjolfsson car went a few tenths quicker in the race, but both need a lot more. Like 2.2+ seconds, on average.

Let's see what happens at Sebring.
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