Peter, thanks for this, well said.

Lots of wasted posts dissecting and justifying. In this context, it was a Driver's Education event. A driving school.

M

 

Gary, no kidding!

 

De Jeeper, it is a good discussion and this thread highlights the differences between drivers style, beliefs, and attitudes while on track. Because of these differences, RULES are put in place, and those driving in the the Entry Level run groups must follow the rules so EVERYONE can be safe and have fun. I do not believe it is constructive for you to approach the other driver. Instead, speak to the chief driving instructor for the event and let them sort it out. They are skilled at correcting infractions in friendly, non-confrontational way.

So, in your example, another car was not following the rules by choice in the novice run group. But, an interesting observation I have made in the advanced groups that you can look forward to: Advance group drivers tend to drive near the limit, and the laws of physics is the great equalizer and enforcer. When at the limit, you can't choose to make a late pass offline successfully. That makes both the car in the front and the car behind much more predictable. And, in turn, it makes running in close quarters extremely fun. This past weekend I came upon a 944 and a Honda S2000 trading places, and I got behind in my slightly faster Cayman. We were never more than a car length apart for 2 laps between the 3 cars. And, I knew exactly what they were going to do - as physics controls where they have to turn in and where they have to track out. It was fun and when they started to exceed their tire limits, they knew it was time to let me go bye. These encounters are not usually planned in a DE event but it made the weekend for me. So, look forward to the time when you are running at the limit and can predict what the guy in front and the guy behind will do because the laws of physics controls the situation, not driver personality.

 

This assumes near equal cars. In my well setup GT3 race car with slicks, when I catch up with most cars, even well driven, I can drive lines at their pace that they could not possibly match. So, I could most certainly make a late pass successfully off line. You could suggest that race cars like mine are not often in advanced DE groups. That's probably mostly true but not always true. Of course, the more recent GT3 street cars are incredibly capable especially with slicks or DOT race rubber. So they too would be able to do things older cars driven by advanced drivers could not manage. I am sure this is why all PCA DE groups require a point by...at least I think they do.

This is why I almost never do a PCA DE day. I know why the passing rules are what they are....I just can't live with them. There would be too many pauses as I waited for the point by to come. I do race car test days or track days that allow passing anywhere without a point bye. For the Utah Motorsports Campus PCA Club Race weekend, I will be running in the PCA DE on Friday in the "PCA Racer and Coaches ONLY" group. I can only assume passes will still require a point by. The point of those sessions is for me to learn the track so I will just have to deal with the point by requirement. I am going to do my best to learn the two track configurations that we will run on a simulator before the event.

Oh, I am not suggesting PCA DE events should have different rules. They just don't match up well with my situation.

 

I really disagree with this. Drivers should 100% try to discuss what happens on track with their fellow participants before taking it to the CI. You don’t have to be confrontational about it, a simple “hey, in our last session I was driving the # whatever car and in turn X this happened. What was your take on the situation?” You don’t know what the other driver was doing/thinking until you ask. And quite frankly, one of the things that’s bothered me about this thread is that the OP hasn’t asked what HE could have done differently/better (if I missed it somewhere in the thread then I apologize) despite a lot of people making some sound advice about getting cars around him faster/earlier, being more comfortable with cars in close proximity, etc. These are learning events, and even if the other driver is 100% at fault for whatever happened there are still two cars involved and something for both drivers to learn.(even if it’s “how to recognize an idiot on the track and get safely out of the way”) Being an adult and having that conversation directly is how that should be done, and if you can’t bring yourself to have a 1:1 discussion then just about every group I’ve ever run with has classroom sessions at least in the lower groups where they encourage you to talk about what’s happening on the track.

If it’s something that you’ve discussed with the same driver before, or you approach them and they blow it off or are a jerk back to you then for sure, go to the CI. But we’re supposed to trust each other with our safety out there, driving in really close proximity at really high speeds. If you can’t try to have a meaningful discussion in the paddock how can you have any trust on the track?

 

Thats a fair point. I was doing things correctly from my point of view but being a beginner group i dont know everything. Also the other guy is also learning. I know i have to get better but that will only come with practice so im gonna have to deal with people making poor decisions.

also my instincts and reaction to the event, imo, were correct. I recognised what was happening, made an adjustment and avoided an accident. My point for this thread wasnt to slam the other driver for making a mistake but to ask more experienced drivers/coaches what else could be done for both me and the other driver. I think situational awareness needs to coached for some drivers. It should not be, push the go pedal to the floor just because u can.

 

AMEN!

+1,000,000

 

Got that right.

I keep forgetting that this was a novice run group.

You don’t know what you don’t know yet.

 

Strongly agree and, in my experience, going and "talking to the guy" as an individual driver has never been anything I've regretted and I've never felt the need to get the CI involved.

 

amurph, this works in theory, and can work with experienced drivers. But, at the Novice Level, when the person is already unsure, it more often leads to screwing up the rest of the track day for them at best, or retiring from the sport at worse.

You make some good points, too. I guess it all depends on how well the track day leaders emphasis the focus on having fun and being safe.

 

The good clubs find a way to make drivers get together in more than just a drivers meeting.
The more the drivers have to interact @ the track, the greater level of respect going forward.

 

amurph and dgrobs, sounds like both of you are going to be at VIR this weekend? If so, would enjoy meeting up with y'all. I'll be driving a black BMW M3 with a wing...#717. What are y'all driving and your number? I'll have bourbon, you gentlemen are responsible for the hookers and blow. OP, sorry for the slight derail. Anybody else going to be at VIR this weekend?

 

Viper Green 991.2 MT GT3 Car # 694

#694 (If anyone is wondering why all my track cars have # 694, it has to do with my beloved New York Rangers, try to figure out why--a Ranger fan should pick right up on it....)

I will be dropping off tomorrow around 5pm.

At VIR, I paddock in the back row up against the hot pits close to the classroom bldg., usually about 10 car spots up from the classrooms.

You can't miss the car. Of that I am sure.

Anthony, when are you dropping off?

As for the blow, I need to stop by Luigi's tonight and pick up that black pool ball.

I will pick up the hookers on my tow down in tomorrow in West Virginia. Good chance they won't have any teeth (which works out just fine IMHO)...lol.

Shoot me a pm with your cell # and I'll shoot you back mine. You too Murph (although I may have yours from last season, just have no idea what name it's under.).

You both planning to drop off tomorrow?

 

yep! I’m black cayman #47, you’ll know it’s me because I’ll probably be swearing a lot over something really important I forgot to pack.

 

Np, hookers and blow r almost as important as fuel on a raod trip.