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Massive crash at Laguna tody?

 
Old 10-15-2018, 06:53 PM
  #76  
Mahler9th
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yesyoucan...

we may know each other...and/or we may know some folks in common.

I see claims that the worker was on the track when hit, and some comments about that.

Do you know for certain that that is where the worker was when hit? And if so, do you know why?

If you do, the authorities may want to speak with you.

My general feeling is that people in Forums just run with what they think is true and then start commenting.

I have corresponded about Porsches, track driving and racing on the internet since 1994 (,maybe even earlier), and yes that includes Rennlist and ALL of its pre-cursors. In my experience, we almost never get the full truth.

Folks are usually too quick with their keyboards when it comes to speculation. I have never had an experience where that was a good thing.

Last edited by Mahler9th; 10-15-2018 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:08 PM
  #77  
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Incredibly sad and terrible news! RIP and prayers for him and thoughts go out to the loved ones he left behind.
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:11 PM
  #78  
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CFRA is taking donations for the family of the corner worker:

https://www.paypal.com/donate/?token...US&locale.x=US
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:15 PM
  #79  
yesyoucan
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Originally Posted by Mahler9th View Post
yesyoucan...

we may know each other...and/or we may know some folks in common.

I see claims that the worker was on the track when hit, and some comments about that.

Do you know for certain that that is where the worker was when hit? And if so, do you know why?

If you do, the authorities may want to speak with you.

My general feeling is that people in Forums just run with what they think is true and then start commenting.

I have corresponded about Porsches, track driving and racing on the internet since 1994 (,maybe even earlier), and yest that includes Rennlist and ALL of its pre-curors. In my experience, we almost never get the full truth.

Folks are usually too quick with their keyboards when it comes to speculation. I have had an experience where that was a good thing.
The first car of our four car group was a GT4 clubsport. I do know that driver as we both use the same coach (we weren't using that coach but he was coaching someone else that day). The GT4 Clubsport has the video of the flagger and exactly where he was. (I didn't want to watch the video).

The second car behind the clubsport (very close to it) is the one that hit the flagger. Literally moments after the clubsport went through.

Our mutual coach was there and was talking to Laguna Seca track officials. I imagine they would have this information/video.

This situation developed very, very quickly. I was the first one that alerted the track officials that the flagger was down motionless and people who came off the track seemed to focus on the "shoe" and the three cars that had damage.

Everything I posted in my first post is "what I know" and saw myself. I didn't see the collision with the flagger but the aftermath right afterwards. I didn't know the GT3 in front of me actually hit the flagger until I was told a little after the incident. I had my own speculation before I found out that the GT3 hit the corner worker. (I thought it may have been the flying car parts from the car behind me that may have hit the corner worker (which turned out to be incorrect).


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Old 10-15-2018, 08:00 PM
  #80  
mark kibort
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Was the flagger on track helping someone that was disabled before the "3 cars" came through . if so , why wasnt there a red or yellow flag flying at mid turn 6-7 ?
Such a tragic story.... prayers for the family.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:08 PM
  #81  
brendon
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[QUOTE user=yesyoucan]5 cars spun out, two hit the wall at turn 7 and one of them hit one of the other 3 cars. Video of that incident. Two parts to the video within the video. The car that leaked and the aftermath[/QUOTE]

When watching the video, take a careful note of what the track looked like. The oil/coolant/whatever is clearly visible on the track surface. If you are watching for those kinds of details, it can help save you in situations like this. It doesn't always help, but you do improve your odds. And following another car makes life a lot more tricky.

Also, if you have planned your outs at various places, you can make better decisions when you can't stop for whatever reason. For example, you can sometimes go straight at T7 and visit the cart track if you can't stop.

Having been off track at 140 after trying to brake on oil, I can tell you that it sucks to damage a car because of bad luck.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:23 PM
  #82  
stout
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Truly awful news. My condolences to the family and friends.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:23 PM
  #83  
brendon
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Originally Posted by Odddoylerules View Post
7 years of experience as a professional corner worker speaking here, you NEVER leave station when track is hot, except to blue room break. (Even safer area than post)

YOU CANNOT COMMUNICATE WITH THE DRIVERS FROM THE TRACK SURFACE.

I am shocked to hear so many instances of workers being off post w cars on course. If confirmed, his life was in his own hands when he stepped off station especially w a hazard immediately prior to his stretch of track. This tragedy should have been avoided.

If an airborne car took him out of the station thats another story.
In the olden days, we used to stand on the trackside on the "spectator barriers". You had to follow protocol and be on your toes to be "safe", but standard operating practice would now be considered suicidal. I remember "dodging" a spinning Ferrari P4 at a historic race in Cape Town. I saw him start to spin under braking and took one step away from the track, at which point he passed between me and the wall. That brought home just how little chance you really had if you relied on human "speed" to avoid danger. The big difference was that flags were used sparingly in those days and drivers respected them! Ignoring a double yellow, as I see people do all the time nowadays, would pretty much guarantee you crashed.

More recently doing F1 marshaling, the main rule is to not cross the track EVER when the track is hot. The FIA hands out $50k fines for doing that. I don't recall them being worried about being outside the barriers, but once you've seen F1 and similar cars at full speed, you have zero chance of dodging anything. So it was pretty rare that you were over the barriers to work on anything.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:26 PM
  #84  
Akunob
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Originally Posted by brendon View Post
Also, if you have planned your outs at various places, you can make better decisions when you can't stop for whatever reason...
With all due respect, any ‘planned outs’ you may have had go right out the window once you hit oil on track. For one, you have no idea how the car will react, second you have no idea how much control of the car you will have and finally three, you have zero idea about the track conditions (how much traffic there is around you etc.). All I can say, if you hit oil or encounter any unforeseen circumstances on track, try to stay calm (no fast hand/steering or foot/pedal action), as best as possible try to decelerate the car (hopefully in a safe straight line) and lastly, rely on your training/experience to avoid contact and to remain IN the car afterwards until approached by track workers.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:30 PM
  #85  
yesyoucan
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Originally Posted by mark kibort View Post
Was the flagger on track helping someone that was disabled before the "3 cars" came through . if so , why wasnt there a red or yellow flag flying at mid turn 6-7 ?
Such a tragic story.... prayers for the family.
Race day and HPDE days are different.

I attend HPDE events. I've probably done about 30 track days at Laguna Seca now in the last 3 years. I think I've only seen the flag station at 7 manned once and never seen a flag worker at the tree that you aim at when entering the corkscrew (as the video that someone posted before of where the flag stations are).

The corner worker at 6 can see until the top of the crest where the box for a corner worker sits unoccupied at Turn 7. From turn 7 (basically the start of the brake zone) it looks like it's blind from corner worker at 6 and at top of corkscrew. Usually, the corner worker at the corkscrew has half their body behind the concrete wall and their top body twisted to look at cars coming into the brake zone. The cars would come in view extremely quickly).

The corner worker at the top of the corkscrew seems to have the responsibility of the blind area from turn 7 to the corkscrew, at the top of the corkscrew and to the bottom until a person comes into view of the corner worker at Turn 9.

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Old 10-15-2018, 09:17 PM
  #86  
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I fully agree with Yesyoucan.

I was in the same group that day (@ Yesyoucan, we discussed together at the end of the morning, i.e.: white Boxster S !), but was behind of the leading group, I certify that the flagman at turn 6 was very active with the red and yellow flag.

AND : ***THANKS*** to him, this is why I arrived on the top of the hill, in the braking point of Turn 8 at a pretty safe speed.

Last edited by GVA-SFO; 10-17-2018 at 02:16 AM.
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:37 PM
  #87  
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Not much to say here except:
To the flag/corner worker - Thank you for your efforts and sacrifice in keeping us safe.
To the family - We are so sorry and & deeply moved by your loss and the loss to the family that safe keeps us. We are deeply sorry for this tragic loss.
To the Community of racers, DER's and enthusiasts, find a moment of prayer and thanks that people like this exist, without them - we have nothing.
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:03 PM
  #88  
VID997
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Updated video clip from the 5 o'clock News Broadcast:

>> click here <<

Unfortunately you will have to watch the ad before the newsreel plays.


Last edited by VID997; 10-15-2018 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 10-16-2018, 12:10 AM
  #89  
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Thanks for attaching that new video.
They confirmed that the flag worker wasn't behind the barrier at the time of the incident. That explains a lot...but of course not all (like why he was out there). Very sad for all involved.

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Old 10-16-2018, 02:43 AM
  #90  
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Usually there is a corner worker at T7 as you come up the hill and it appears that that day no one was there. It looks like a few cars went over the spilled oil but were lucky to save it (prior to the crash). My guess is that corner worker at T8 saw cars loosing control and probably stepped out to warn others. Unfortunately if the oil was on the track at the braking zone it’s too late for a warning. I would think if there was a worker at T7 a lot of this could have been avoided.
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