James Achard

Does anyone have any useful data comparing these two tires? laptimes etc. I'm looking for some tires that come in better sizes.

Cheers, James

RedlineMan

Hi james;

No takers yet, eh?. I am sorry I do not have any hard data to offer. I HAVE driven both tires, though.

The Michelins (245/45/16) have been pretty good. I am not convinced I have found the exact right setup for them in terms of pressures and suspension, but they have performed well and I am fairly pleased. Some of the running has also been in the cold so that is certainly a factor. I am not willing to say yet that they represent a good value ($220ea!) - since they are at mid-life... I hope - but so far so good.

I had a set of Toyos previously. I must say right off that I bought them used (Daytona Sedan Series challenge enduro - about 2 hours max use, flat out). These things wear like iron. I simply had to relegate them to being the spare emergency set because they were hard as rock. They still stick better than a garden variety street tire, but they are definitely cycled to death. I'd guess 50-60.

I imagine that they may not provide quite the grip of the Michelins, and they may not be as consistent over a long period of laps, but that is guesswork. I KNOW they offer good value, especially for someone on a limited budget.

I know this is not specific data, but I hope it helps nonetheless.

M758

I have not run the MPSC, but have lots of time on Toyo's

My guess is that the life of the toyo's & the MPSC's will be similar 40-50 heat cycles.

BTW... I have a set of Toyo's with 36 heat cycles and they still set track records.

I do think the MPSC are a faster tire however. Not sure how much faster, but SOME guys SAY that the MPSC does not give up too much vs a Hoosier.

Toyo is not the fastest R-tire out there, but is solid. If you need speed and life MPSC is good. If you can sarifice a some speed for long life the Toyo RA-1 is great. If you need speed at the expense of all else Hoosier. If you want good speed and are willing to have ok life Kumho.

HTH

James Achard

Thanks Guys, I guess my biggest "issue" is that the MPSC's come in very limited sizes. The prices are the same for me in 17" and Toyo has better size selection(At least at the supplier I looked at for Toyo's, who do you recommend?). Thanks for the insight...The quest goes on....One more thing, shave or no shave in regard to the Toyo's

Cheers, James

M758

Of my 3 sets of toyo's I got the first 2 full tread. 3rd set I shaved to 4/32nd.

I have yet make full determination if I should shave my 4th set.

James Achard

M758, Where do you get your Toyo's?

Cheers, James

jerome951

Jim,

For price comparisons between Toyo dealers, I'd suggest contacting Paul at Radial Tire in Silver Spring, MD (301) 585-2740). He also usually has everything in stock to ship immediately. He's also a Grand Am Cup racer so may have some first-hand experience with RA1s and MPSCs.

No commercial interest; just a happy customer.

APKhaos

James,
New RA1s are greasy, squirmy and take a few heat cycles to come into their own. Shaving does almost nothing to reduce their life - the heat hardening gets 'em before the tread fails. Shaving eliminates the tread squirm. Shaved RA1s perform at their best out of the box.

Chris Picklo

So, are the pilot sport cups worth the extra money - in your opinions?

James Achard

Jerome, Thank you for the contact. I spoke with Paul and he recommends the RA-1's for cars 2700lbs and underand the Michelins for heavier cars. Since my car is on the line I'm going to try the RA-1's since they are cheaper. He recommended shaving too.

Cheers, James

forklift

Any new comments here? I am getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these and I am still hearing different opinions, but leaning toward the Cups (thanks Jeff).

Thanks.

RSAErick

The last time I checked (last year), the RA-1's weren't available in the "appropriate" 17" sizes that I wanted.... make sure that you are within a 3% of true tire diameter (factor in the sidewall width ratio) front to rear.

Maybe they're offering more sizes now, but it made my decision easier --> MPSC.

So far, I have been very happy with them, but admit that I do not have anything to compare them with.

Good luck.
Erick

Jim Child

I've run both the Toyo RA-1's and the Michelin PSC's. I find that that when you have the pressures dialed in and the tires properly up to temperature the MPSC's are about 3/4 to 1 second per lap faster than the RA-1's around a track like Putnam Park. However, I find the MPSC's to be a very finicky tire. If you don't have the pressures absolutely perfect, or if they're not up to temperature then they work *very* poorly. I find that in weather conditions below 60 degrees F its impossible to get them up to temperature and working properly. On the other hand the Toyo RA-1's are a very user friendly tire. For me, the RA-1's and the MPSC's last about the same number of track days. So in my opinion it comes down to a question of whether the extra speed under optimal conditions provided by the MPSC's is worth the extra money. If you're racing it probably is. If you're doing DE's or just using them for practice, then I think the cheaper RA-1's are a better choice.

I definitely recommend shaving the RA-1's for optimal dry weather performance. If you don't mind sacrificing a bit of dry weather performance for the flexibility to run well in the rain then leave them unshaved. Full tread RA-1's make great rain tires.

I get my Toyos at The Wheel Source:

http://www.wheel1.com

forklift

I finally made the switch to MPSCs from RA-1s. Off to a rough start as you can see, but I think I have the problem solved thanks to Mr. Curtis (and thanks Tony). All of that smoke is MPSC. In only two hot laps with only three left hand turns I lost a ton of rubber. I saw the smoke in T3 and T5 in the second lap (first lap warming up those cold Cups) and thought it was the Mustang behind me (traffic in front!). Then I lost him and still saw the smoke with nobody behind and I went into the pits after this pic was taken. The pit marshal said they were about to black flag me. It only happened in two of the three left handers and with the car under load meaning mid-turn (eyes up until track out).

Anyway, I really liked the Cups, but still need time to get use to them. My laptimes only slightly slower than the Toyos, but I can tell I have more grip and will lose some time when I get use to them (and the rubbing WILL be gone). I did a bunch of reading before I bought them and agree with the comments made about a quick transition from understeer to oversteer (in the slow corners).

BTW, my wheels are Cup IIs off a 993, 17 x 9, 55 offset. The tires are 255s. Camber is 2.75 in the rear, PSS9s are now 1/1, with the sways in the middle. Mr. Curtis had 6 mm spacers (still can't believe he had them!) and that took care of the smoke. Still have some slight rubbing so I will add 3mm. spacers. Longer studs are in the mail.

Jim

Tom W

I bought a set of RA-1s to use as rain tires on my spare set of wheels earlier this year (I normally use MPSC). Both sets in 205/255 sizes on cup II wheels. MPSC are about 1 second faster at Laguna Seca, Buttonwillow or Thunderhill in back-to-back trials.

Jim: I found the PSS-9s worked a bit better on my 993 when at 3 front and 1 rear. Hitting even a "small" apex berm upset the car too much with them at 1 in front.