SS22

Panasonic has partnered with the likes of Boeing and Tesla. Crapping on Panasonic makes no sense.

Using the 970 hybrid problems (that a minority of people have had) to justify not getting a 971 hybrid also makes no sense.

I do agree that the 971.2 hybrids with the 17.9 kw battery are the best

amphicar770

Just to clarify some things.

I actually do like my 2014 hybrid very much, it is fast, comfortable, a joy to drive, i even think it looks fantastic. Certainly leagues apart from my 914 which I also love for different reasons.

My Panamera hybrid was bought as a CPO. Reviewing the service history, it did have many visits to the shop including the HV battery replacement. Even that I am OK with, I've owned British and Italian cars and realize they are more demanding than your typical rice burner.

What I am far less impressed with is how Porsche gouges, yes gouges, their customers on parts to keep their modern cars running. Yes, I get that these are specialty vehicles so I do not expect Chevy parts prices. Still, I would expect prices in line with Jaguar or Maserati. Instead, I see prices more like hand-built Bentley parts. Then Porsche does nonsense like coding 12v batteries simply to make it harder to go to aftermarket.

The hybrid battery is one of the most blatent examples. There are simply too many stories of people being burned when they find out replacement is nearly $25k. These are not Tesla EVs where the battery makes up most of the vehicle. This is for a battery where a similar capacity unit on almost any other vehicle on the planet would run about $5k. There is nothing remarkable about the Porsche battery, it likely uses rhe same LG cells that everyone else does. It is simply callous corporate greed with no concern for customers or the environment.

So, I suppose my gripes are less about the Panamera itself than they are about Porsche’s business practices. Unfortunately, Those practices hit hybrid owners especially hard. I tend to keep vehicles for a long time and give them excellent care. I would love to keep my Panamera for another 10+ years, but Porsche seems to want people to throw them away. The later models are still under federally required warranty, just wait a few years on those and we may likely hear similar stories.

SS22

This is the problem right here. Porsche is not in the same league as Jaguar and Maserati so you cannot expect Porsches to cost the same. And I say that as someone who had a Jaguar F-Type. Maserati lol don’t even get me started on that piece of Chrysler crap. Since you brought up Bentley, you do know that Panameras share the same platform as the Continental and Flying Spur…. Anyways, anyone with common sense who buys a Porsche knows they are expensive to own and maintain; rather than whine about costly repairs at the dealership, you can buy extended warranty and/or use independent shops (including for a hybrid battery replacement). Whining about what Porsche charges is just nonsense. If you are really upset about it, call Porsche and give them your feedback…

amphicar770

Pah. Porsche produces as many Panameras as Maserati produces cars. Many of the components are shared with other VWs and Audis. The hybrid battery is not a unique component representing tons of Porsche R&D or specialized manufacturing. It is a box containing a bunch of LG lithium ion cells with a cost no different than in a Prius. But, if getting ripped off makes you feel superior, goid for you.

you must dream in color. Yeah, I'm sure if I contact Porsche directly that Heather and Chad from customer service will bring my concerns straight ti the BOD for resolution. More likely, they will send me a coupon for 10% off my next oil change. In the era of social media, companies do tend to respond when their shenanigans are called out publicly.

But yes, you paid more than i did for your Porsche so clearly you are wiser than myself and the voices from rhe cheap seats should be silenced lest the emperor's new suit be seen for what it is.

SS22

It’s not about the lithium ion cells in a battery the same way that it’s not about the same raw leather, plastic, and metal used to make a Porsche vs. other cars. People pay a premium for a Porsche for many reasons too obvious for me to have to state, the same way people pay a premium to get lots of other luxury products and services. Sure, part of the premium is due to the superior quality and performance, but most of it is the reputation and brand. Again, if you don’t want to pay Porsche’s price for hybrid battery replacement (which entails much more than the battery but also the labor of the actual replacement process), then get a warranty or go to a third party shop and pay a fraction.

You’re right that contacting customer service won’t do you much good. Frankly, making a hundred posts on this forum and repeating the same thing will do even less good. We get it. You think Porsche shouldn’t charge $20K+ for a hybrid battery replacement after the 8-year warranty runs out. Just know that Porsche will adjust its pricing based on the market, not anything else, and certainly not because of your posts on this forum!

amphicar770

Your right, they won't do a thing. They can keep pushing crap IMS bearings. Poorly designed batteries, air shocks that fail regularly, failure prine cooling systems held together with glue. They will do so because they know that no matter what garbage they sell, that fanbois like yourself will keep claiming that Porsche is superior in every way. They will pay whatever it takes to try and imprees their mistresses and make up for any other shortcomings.

sac02

Two points:

1. @amphicar770 and @SS22 - one of you needs to put the other on ignore, lol.

2. There's a lot of misunderstanding / misinformation above about how OEMs and suppliers work between engineering, procurement, manufacturing (OEM and suppliers), and quality control. The primary misunderstanding that I see is that people don't seem to understand that nearly all of it goes back to decisions made by the OEM. (source OEM QC engineer)
.

• OEM purchasing decides to source parts from various suppliers who can all build the part, but have different QC records and different piece prices (among other price factors – tooling, logistics, etc.).
• OEM engineering either gives the design to the supplier, or works with the supplier to design, or reviews and signs off on a supplier design – in all cases OEM engineering is finally responsible. There is there is no such thing as a supplier unilaterally deciding what will wind up in a Porsche vehicle.
• OEM systems integration is difficult – In a single ECU, the software is designed by one group, the electronics/PCB is designed by a second group, the case and mounting is designed by a third group, the wire harness connector and wire spec is designed by a fourth group, and the vehicle level electrical architecture/networking group is also involved. Then all those groups work with NVH, packaging, thermal, etc. team/constraints. All four+ of those OEM groups are working with their equivalent group at the supplier, so to develop one ECU we have 10 or more different groups with different ideas and priorities trying to work together – and that’s ONLY for the engineering design of the thing, we haven’t even gotten to actually manufacturing it.
• OEM is responsible for ensuring supplier manufacturing processes meet OEM standards
• OEM is responsible for ensuring supplier QC practices meet OEM standards
  • (KEY POINT regarding above two items: I work for a OEM that is heavily invested in working with suppliers, and IMO has an excellent quality reputation because of it. Other OEMs are hands-off after they had the widget design over to the supplier, and IMO it shows in their quality – either way it is the OEM choice)
• Supplier sometimes F’s up the widget despite the OEM’s best efforts

So there’s a long list of ways the OEM can be responsible for a poor quality part, and a relatively short list of ways the supplier is responsible. And in many cases when it is a “supplier issue”… it’s still an OEM issue for lack of oversight. And this is all before the part even leaves the supplier facility to be assembled into a completed vehicle by the OEM.

ManoTexas

Why do you own a P?

gougoul

I rather tend to support @amphicar770 regarding this matter. You can own a Porsche (or a Ferrari for the matter) and still not being dumb enough to applaud to everything they do. It's ok to overpay for a body part or seat or whatever is "bespoke" but just milking people for off-the-shelf components that are often of average/subpar quality is pushing it a bit far.
You can also enjoy the driving experience (or even the ownership !) in spite of this.

I had this back in the days in a Maranello and in a new maserati F1 Spyder, I mean charging for the defect roof the price of a convertible car (whose roof works on top of it, oh the irony) becomes a bit of a joke. Same for the electric gremlins etc.

And if you cannot tolerate (which is becoming sadly very american) any opinion that isn't yours, you should probably start your own forum so you can ban/cancel people at will (it's easy but you might just end up being alone), or ask the admins here for a safe space.

ManoTexas

Apparently a simple question makes me dumb and intolerant. Amazing.

gougoul

@ManoTexas I wasn't after you You're paranoid on top of everything else

SS22

I think you’re good. It was probably directed at me. Apparently, I cannot share my opinion here and need to go make my own forum

gougoul

@SS22 indeed

Now jokes beside, I don't get why someone couldn't moan (and repeatedly if that's what he's after) about some things that p..ss him off in a car ?

sac02

Truce?

Technical catfights - OK

Personal catfights - NG

SS22

They certainly can but I (and others) can also counter their moaning…

To me, it doesn’t make sense to moan about the cost of hybrid battery replacement when it’s covered under warranty for 8 years (double the new car warranty for everything else), when it can be covered under extended warranty, and when it costs about $5k for a full replacement at third party shops. In reality, this is a non-issue. So scaring potential buyers of hybrid Panameras (971 ones at that based on 970 horror stories) by pushing a false perception that they’ll be stuck with a $25k bill for for an inevitable hybrid battery replacement is not right in my opinion.

If one still wishes to moan about why Porsche charges $20k+ for an out-of-warranty hybrid battery replacement (a practically moot point when there’s warranty and third party shops), then I’d like to hear how this person justifies paying a premium for everything else Porsche (from paying for the actual car, to simple maintenance (ever checked how much Porsche charges for a simple oil change), to complicated repairs (ever checked how much Porsche charges to replace the engine or transmission)… There’s nothing cheap about owning, maintaining, or repairing a Porsche (that’s why people who want to keep them long-term with high miles cover themselves with warranty and/or go to Indy shops even as they know Porsche is more reliable than most other luxury brands).

The idea of moaning about why Porsche is so expensive is like moaning about why a first class seat on an air plane is so much more expensive than an economy seat when at the end of the day you’re sitting in a seat and reaching the same destination or like moaning about why a Rolex costs so much more than other watches that both tell time. So, I am just baffled and hope I can share my opinion just as everyone else is welcome to share their thoughts. I am against “cancel culture” as much as anyone.