GT350
08-05-2016, 06:32 PM
#1501
Race Car
Der Stig - there is a Ferrari and a Porsche on every corner in London, UK - you would feel like a real commoner over there i'd imagine.
I personally haven't seen one GT350R on the road and I have seen 1 GT350 Track Pack in 10 months - it was at the track. That's about the extent of my GT350 sightings (unless you're in Scottsdale where everyone daily drives a GT350 - Scottsdale is so cool).
Anybody can go down to the dealership and get a 911, walk into your Ford dealer and ask to order a GT350 - good luck.
I personally haven't seen one GT350R on the road and I have seen 1 GT350 Track Pack in 10 months - it was at the track. That's about the extent of my GT350 sightings (unless you're in Scottsdale where everyone daily drives a GT350 - Scottsdale is so cool).
Anybody can go down to the dealership and get a 911, walk into your Ford dealer and ask to order a GT350 - good luck.
08-05-2016, 09:57 PM
#1502
Wow, you sure did a 180. Here is what you posted just a few pages back:
"I drove a number of high revving naturally aspirated sports cars out there (E46 M3, E92 M3, 996 GT3, 997.2 GT3, 991 GT3, GT4) and I have to tell you my understanding of an engine feel and sound totally changed when I heard GT350. Words cannot describe the feel of this engine. I dont care if its as big as a truck (its really not much bigger than the E92 M3), but I wouldnt even compare it to a GT4. To be honest, GT4 only has its size going for it. It doesnt rev that high, its not too fast and torquey, and it doesnt sound special. GT3 sounds great but as much as Porsche is in another league when it comes to interior quality and engineering, GT350 is also in another league with its engine. The way it revs, sounds, and responds is just unreal. And it costs pocket change compared to other GT cars. I think its one of those cars everyone should have in their garage all the time."
I haven't driven a GT350, so no firsthand experience. While I agree that weight is the enemy of lap times and consumables budgets (all else being equal), the size of the car, or at least the long wheelbase and wide track could be virtues on a big, fast track with lots of very high speed sweepers. I'll reserve judgment until I drive one on track for myself.
"I drove a number of high revving naturally aspirated sports cars out there (E46 M3, E92 M3, 996 GT3, 997.2 GT3, 991 GT3, GT4) and I have to tell you my understanding of an engine feel and sound totally changed when I heard GT350. Words cannot describe the feel of this engine. I dont care if its as big as a truck (its really not much bigger than the E92 M3), but I wouldnt even compare it to a GT4. To be honest, GT4 only has its size going for it. It doesnt rev that high, its not too fast and torquey, and it doesnt sound special. GT3 sounds great but as much as Porsche is in another league when it comes to interior quality and engineering, GT350 is also in another league with its engine. The way it revs, sounds, and responds is just unreal. And it costs pocket change compared to other GT cars. I think its one of those cars everyone should have in their garage all the time."
I haven't driven a GT350, so no firsthand experience. While I agree that weight is the enemy of lap times and consumables budgets (all else being equal), the size of the car, or at least the long wheelbase and wide track could be virtues on a big, fast track with lots of very high speed sweepers. I'll reserve judgment until I drive one on track for myself.
The reason for the initial sound comment was because the first time I heard this car happened out of nowhere, it was unplanned and I didnt have enough time to examine the car. It was someone else's car in Missouri that I met through someone else while I was visiting my in-laws. I honestly didnt feel comfortable looking at panel gaps of another person's car. And to be perfectly honest, coming from a turbo charged M5, the car does sound quite aggressive and loud and amazing. But a week or so after that I drove a 997.2 GT3 and realized after sitting in the GT3 that those little things that annoy you in the mustang would really bother me. Porsche's design is from 2010 and somehow the fit and finish is 10 times better. Even the plastic non leather surfaces in the old GT3 is better than the ones in mustang.
You guys had to be there in that dealer which had 2xGT350s in their showroom (I wish I took pictures), it was really sad. One of the cars was avalanche gray and the front bumper was literally darker gray and the rest of the car was much lighter gray. And then I measured using my fingers and somehow one of the cars was 1-2mm lower than the other one in its rear wheels (this is the wheel gap). Yes, I checked, there were no shipping blocks. I know what they look like. Then, the exhaust pipes... when you look at both cars from back at a distance, it looks so bad, their position is completely off. It's like both cars were built on a Friday afternoon. And then to top off all of that, you have to pay ADM (mine was only 2.5k) but I said f*** it and left. What I also didnt mention in my previous post was the overall Ford dealer experience. Sorry I just couldn't stand it. I dont want red carpet treatment, but these guys are just amateurs.
Yes it's an outstanding engine (design wise), yes the car does hide its weight, but as I said before you cannot cheat the law of physics.
The other day I was invited to a track day and had a chance to drove Cayman, CaymanS, 911S pretty much at the limit. It was a first for me with Porsche at a track and now I know what people keep saying about "size" and "weight". I wouldn't be able to drive the mustang that way in such a technical HPDE setting and I bet it wouldn't be as fun.
Remember my M2 example. My M5 which is the size of a house from 1800s that weighs 2 tons is faster than the M2 in nurburgring. It hides its weight so well, but somehow its not fun. Forget my M5, the new Panamera is faster than the GT4 and the 997 GT3, does that mean you would choose it over those cars? I bet not. Similarly, I'm sure GT350 is faster than GT4 because it has over 525hp and over 400 torque so it pulls and pulls in straights, but that's really misleading because the fun of a track setting (at least to me) is not the straights, but its the braking zones and corners, and mid corner throttle, and corner exit. I dont think a car that weighs 2900 lbs will feel the same way as a car that weighs 3760 lbs. The difference is almost 900 lbs. That is 400 kilos, equivalent of 4 adults plus more. It doesn't matter if Ford has alien technology in its suspension.
There are many people in RL who are experts in tracking and have hours behind the wheel of all of these cars. What does everyone else think?
08-05-2016, 10:16 PM
#1503
Nordschleife Master
^^^I've wasted precious bandwidth trying to explain all that to you but you wouldn't listen. On top of it,you were badmouthing the GT4...
If I really wanted a Ford I'd buy it at MSRP and know what I'm getting...no surprises for me. There's a reason they cost 65K...
If I needed it and had time/money for an extra car,I'd get one and drive the heck out of it on the street and track without a worry. It's a Ford,parts are cheap and readily available. Heck,you can buy OEM Motorcraft Ford parts on Amazon for half the price the dealer charges. I think the car is good value and you can trash it without a problem. I just wouldn't expect more than what it is...
If I really wanted a Ford I'd buy it at MSRP and know what I'm getting...no surprises for me. There's a reason they cost 65K...
If I needed it and had time/money for an extra car,I'd get one and drive the heck out of it on the street and track without a worry. It's a Ford,parts are cheap and readily available. Heck,you can buy OEM Motorcraft Ford parts on Amazon for half the price the dealer charges. I think the car is good value and you can trash it without a problem. I just wouldn't expect more than what it is...
08-05-2016, 10:19 PM
#1504
^^^I've wasted precious bandwidth trying to explain all that to you but you wouldn't listen. On top of it,you were badmouthing the GT4...
If I really wanted a Ford I'd buy it at MSRP and know what I'm getting...no surprises for me. There's a reason they cost 65K...
If I needed it and had time/money for an extra car,I'd get one and drive the heck out of it on the street and track without a worry. It's a Ford,parts are cheap and readily available. Heck,you can buy OEM Motorcraft Ford parts on Amazon for half the price the dealer charges. I think the car is good value and you can trash it without a problem. I just wouldn't expect more than what it is...
If I really wanted a Ford I'd buy it at MSRP and know what I'm getting...no surprises for me. There's a reason they cost 65K...
If I needed it and had time/money for an extra car,I'd get one and drive the heck out of it on the street and track without a worry. It's a Ford,parts are cheap and readily available. Heck,you can buy OEM Motorcraft Ford parts on Amazon for half the price the dealer charges. I think the car is good value and you can trash it without a problem. I just wouldn't expect more than what it is...
If I had unlimited income (or more income) and could afford multiple cars, sure, it's a nice car and I would buy one. But I can only have 1 weekend car as a track toy and I dont think this is the right car for me, for that purpose. I see lots of people here owning one in addition to their 991/997 GT3/RS. That's not my situation I'm afraid
08-05-2016, 11:48 PM
#1505
Race Car
Well, you haven't really "wasted" your time, in the end I did come around, didn't I?
If I had unlimited income (or more income) and could afford multiple cars, sure, it's a nice car and I would buy one. But I can only have 1 weekend car as a track toy and I dont think this is the right car for me, for that purpose. I see lots of people here owning one in addition to their 991/997 GT3/RS. That's not my situation I'm afraid
If I had unlimited income (or more income) and could afford multiple cars, sure, it's a nice car and I would buy one. But I can only have 1 weekend car as a track toy and I dont think this is the right car for me, for that purpose. I see lots of people here owning one in addition to their 991/997 GT3/RS. That's not my situation I'm afraid
For anyone else if you're looking for a hypercar in your 57,000 dollar purchase (not sure how they bumped you up to 70k Stig) then you might be dissapointed - some people insist on comparing the Ford interior to 200,000 dollar vehicles. Yes the GT350 specs are there with cars in that price range but no you will not have saddle leather or soft padded Bentley hand made clocks - i'm not sure what else you're looking for.
I think you talked yourself out of spending money that's all (and based off the vehicle's condition and poor dealership experience i'd say good move).
08-06-2016, 03:15 AM
#1506
You know why I did that 180? That's because I went to a dealer (won't name it) to literally sign the papers (with my wife) and saw two cars side by side and with all the issues just couldn't get past it. Simple as that. The car I was about to buy was 65k (2.5k ADM) track pack. My wife pulled me aside and looked me in the eye and said "seriously? You want to pay $70,000 for this?" and I somehow cannot forget the look on her face because she is so clueless about cars and hearing this from her was an eye opener.
The reason for the initial sound comment was because the first time I heard this car happened out of nowhere, it was unplanned and I didnt have enough time to examine the car. It was someone else's car in Missouri that I met through someone else while I was visiting my in-laws. I honestly didnt feel comfortable looking at panel gaps of another person's car. And to be perfectly honest, coming from a turbo charged M5, the car does sound quite aggressive and loud and amazing. But a week or so after that I drove a 997.2 GT3 and realized after sitting in the GT3 that those little things that annoy you in the mustang would really bother me. Porsche's design is from 2010 and somehow the fit and finish is 10 times better. Even the plastic non leather surfaces in the old GT3 is better than the ones in mustang.
You guys had to be there in that dealer which had 2xGT350s in their showroom (I wish I took pictures), it was really sad. One of the cars was avalanche gray and the front bumper was literally darker gray and the rest of the car was much lighter gray. And then I measured using my fingers and somehow one of the cars was 1-2mm lower than the other one in its rear wheels (this is the wheel gap). Yes, I checked, there were no shipping blocks. I know what they look like. Then, the exhaust pipes... when you look at both cars from back at a distance, it looks so bad, their position is completely off. It's like both cars were built on a Friday afternoon. And then to top off all of that, you have to pay ADM (mine was only 2.5k) but I said f*** it and left. What I also didnt mention in my previous post was the overall Ford dealer experience. Sorry I just couldn't stand it. I dont want red carpet treatment, but these guys are just amateurs.
Yes it's an outstanding engine (design wise), yes the car does hide its weight, but as I said before you cannot cheat the law of physics.
The other day I was invited to a track day and had a chance to drove Cayman, CaymanS, 911S pretty much at the limit. It was a first for me with Porsche at a track and now I know what people keep saying about "size" and "weight". I wouldn't be able to drive the mustang that way in such a technical HPDE setting and I bet it wouldn't be as fun.
Remember my M2 example. My M5 which is the size of a house from 1800s that weighs 2 tons is faster than the M2 in nurburgring. It hides its weight so well, but somehow its not fun. Forget my M5, the new Panamera is faster than the GT4 and the 997 GT3, does that mean you would choose it over those cars? I bet not. Similarly, I'm sure GT350 is faster than GT4 because it has over 525hp and over 400 torque so it pulls and pulls in straights, but that's really misleading because the fun of a track setting (at least to me) is not the straights, but its the braking zones and corners, and mid corner throttle, and corner exit. I dont think a car that weighs 2900 lbs will feel the same way as a car that weighs 3760 lbs. The difference is almost 900 lbs. That is 400 kilos, equivalent of 4 adults plus more. It doesn't matter if Ford has alien technology in its suspension.
There are many people in RL who are experts in tracking and have hours behind the wheel of all of these cars. What does everyone else think?
The reason for the initial sound comment was because the first time I heard this car happened out of nowhere, it was unplanned and I didnt have enough time to examine the car. It was someone else's car in Missouri that I met through someone else while I was visiting my in-laws. I honestly didnt feel comfortable looking at panel gaps of another person's car. And to be perfectly honest, coming from a turbo charged M5, the car does sound quite aggressive and loud and amazing. But a week or so after that I drove a 997.2 GT3 and realized after sitting in the GT3 that those little things that annoy you in the mustang would really bother me. Porsche's design is from 2010 and somehow the fit and finish is 10 times better. Even the plastic non leather surfaces in the old GT3 is better than the ones in mustang.
You guys had to be there in that dealer which had 2xGT350s in their showroom (I wish I took pictures), it was really sad. One of the cars was avalanche gray and the front bumper was literally darker gray and the rest of the car was much lighter gray. And then I measured using my fingers and somehow one of the cars was 1-2mm lower than the other one in its rear wheels (this is the wheel gap). Yes, I checked, there were no shipping blocks. I know what they look like. Then, the exhaust pipes... when you look at both cars from back at a distance, it looks so bad, their position is completely off. It's like both cars were built on a Friday afternoon. And then to top off all of that, you have to pay ADM (mine was only 2.5k) but I said f*** it and left. What I also didnt mention in my previous post was the overall Ford dealer experience. Sorry I just couldn't stand it. I dont want red carpet treatment, but these guys are just amateurs.
Yes it's an outstanding engine (design wise), yes the car does hide its weight, but as I said before you cannot cheat the law of physics.
The other day I was invited to a track day and had a chance to drove Cayman, CaymanS, 911S pretty much at the limit. It was a first for me with Porsche at a track and now I know what people keep saying about "size" and "weight". I wouldn't be able to drive the mustang that way in such a technical HPDE setting and I bet it wouldn't be as fun.
Remember my M2 example. My M5 which is the size of a house from 1800s that weighs 2 tons is faster than the M2 in nurburgring. It hides its weight so well, but somehow its not fun. Forget my M5, the new Panamera is faster than the GT4 and the 997 GT3, does that mean you would choose it over those cars? I bet not. Similarly, I'm sure GT350 is faster than GT4 because it has over 525hp and over 400 torque so it pulls and pulls in straights, but that's really misleading because the fun of a track setting (at least to me) is not the straights, but its the braking zones and corners, and mid corner throttle, and corner exit. I dont think a car that weighs 2900 lbs will feel the same way as a car that weighs 3760 lbs. The difference is almost 900 lbs. That is 400 kilos, equivalent of 4 adults plus more. It doesn't matter if Ford has alien technology in its suspension.
There are many people in RL who are experts in tracking and have hours behind the wheel of all of these cars. What does everyone else think?
I'm not sure about the two cars that you looked at. But the car I'm looking at doesn't seem anywhere near that bad. In fact, I think it's pretty good for a Ford. It's not Porsche quality, but it is what I'd expect of a $35-40k normal Mustang GT. The paint is very good, I can see no flaws. Yeah, some body gaps could be better, but nothing that I'd lose sleep over. No problems with the wheel well height or the exhausts being uneven that I could see. And I think I have a pretty good eye for such things.
Still undecided if I'll pull the trigger, still trying to convince my better half to let me keep the 911 and get the Shelby... ...my saga continues...
08-06-2016, 03:24 AM
#1507
As a side note, I decided to test drive a new BMW M2 and a lightly used 991.1 Carrera S 7-speed stick to gauge whether I'm really that head over heals for the GT350. Neither of these cars impressed me enough to want to trade or sell my beloved 997.1 Carrera S for one. For some reason, it's only that GT350 that has that kind of spell on me at the moment.
08-06-2016, 03:37 AM
#1508
Race Car
As a side note, I decided to test drive a new BMW M2 and a lightly used 991.1 Carrera S 7-speed stick to gauge whether I'm really that head over heals for the GT350. Neither of these cars impressed me enough to want to trade or sell my beloved 997.1 Carrera S for one. For some reason, it's only that GT350 that has that kind of spell on me at the moment.
If you can't convince the wife to let you keep the 911 and a Shelby GT350 I say new wife.
BTW GT350 just qualified 1st place today for pole position - tune in to IMSA tomorrow for the race.
08-06-2016, 11:00 AM
#1509
Nordschleife Master
There aren't any on this Forum that bleeds more Ford Blue than me.
Ford has done a tremendous job bringing the enthusiast terrific cars and trucks. They have done an especially terrific job bring performance enthusiasts great performance cars forh years from the Cobra R to the first GT500 to the 2007 Shelby GT. These cars werer affordable, performed well and were easily modified to perform great.
Ford picked it up in 2012 with the Boss 302 and showed the world that a stick axle rear could be made to handle and work. The Boss bested cars like the R8 and M3 at the track. Won World Challenge Championships and was a winner in all respects. All for $52,000 for a Laguna Seca. The car offered R8/M3 performance, true iconic parallel Boss 302 heritage for thousands less. No it didn't have the fit and finish of the R8 or the M3 but it was more affordable and had the "Boss 302" cool factor. It also had an industry first with "Track Key" that changed the engine performance noticiably and gave the car a great lope on idle. The side dump exhaust gave a car a GREAT sound especially with Track Key. Real Americana that I just love!
You still see Boss 302 at tracks and they are still competitive and a hoot.
The Boss LS is still highly desired with low mileage LS's still fetching 90% of their original MSRP. Not bad and better than even Mac, Ferrari 430, 458, standard 997s or 991s.
Ford stepped it up again with the GT350 taking the Mustang out of its historical traditional formula and gave it IRS and a FPC. The S550 chasis is totally different that the S197. The FPC sounds "different" than classic American muscle to me. I like it but its different, not better than my Boss just different. Thats to me.
For the money the GT350 can't be beat for a performance package. Thats why I bought a Boss 302 to track and not a Porsche 997. The Boss was near as fast and light years less money to maintain and fix. If i stuffed my Boss into a tire wall, yeah I'd be very upset. However, the cost to fix it is a fraction of what it would cost for a 997 where I would be near inconsolable for weeks.
I see lots of GT350s at shows and car cruises but have not seen one out in the wild. But truth is I have not seen many GT3s out in the wild either. Rare. Come to think of it I think I have seen one Boss 302 in the last 4 years out in the wild.
Fit and finish? Come on its a Ford. Let be fair here. If you want fit and finish step up to McClaren, Porsche etc...
Performance. A 991 GT3 will overall leave a GT350 behind especially on tighter circuits. No, a GT350 cannot run with $200K cars. A GT350 would not see where a GT3RS had gone or a Mac 570, 650s, 458, 488, Huracan etc..on any circuit. But lets be fair again. You are paying alot more for the latter than the former.
For the $$$ the GT350 is a great bargain and will provide more performance potential then most here can reach anyway. So what if a Viper ACR or Z06 is faster or the RS is faster? Most can't get 100% out of the GT350 so why do you need faster or more expensive? If you want it and can afford it thats different but that doesn't mean you can actually make use of it.
It comes down to this. How much $$$ do you want to spend just to have fun?
You can have a hoot in a spec Miata which btw I've seen passing much faster cars.
For the money, what Ford is offering at MSRP can't be beat all things considered. Once we get to dealer ADMs the analysis changes. Once ADMs start pushing up against Z06 territory or with the R into Z06 or even ACR territory I buy the Z06 or go the difference and buy the ACR. No brainer.
Ford has done a tremendous job bringing the enthusiast terrific cars and trucks. They have done an especially terrific job bring performance enthusiasts great performance cars forh years from the Cobra R to the first GT500 to the 2007 Shelby GT. These cars werer affordable, performed well and were easily modified to perform great.
Ford picked it up in 2012 with the Boss 302 and showed the world that a stick axle rear could be made to handle and work. The Boss bested cars like the R8 and M3 at the track. Won World Challenge Championships and was a winner in all respects. All for $52,000 for a Laguna Seca. The car offered R8/M3 performance, true iconic parallel Boss 302 heritage for thousands less. No it didn't have the fit and finish of the R8 or the M3 but it was more affordable and had the "Boss 302" cool factor. It also had an industry first with "Track Key" that changed the engine performance noticiably and gave the car a great lope on idle. The side dump exhaust gave a car a GREAT sound especially with Track Key. Real Americana that I just love!
You still see Boss 302 at tracks and they are still competitive and a hoot.
The Boss LS is still highly desired with low mileage LS's still fetching 90% of their original MSRP. Not bad and better than even Mac, Ferrari 430, 458, standard 997s or 991s.
Ford stepped it up again with the GT350 taking the Mustang out of its historical traditional formula and gave it IRS and a FPC. The S550 chasis is totally different that the S197. The FPC sounds "different" than classic American muscle to me. I like it but its different, not better than my Boss just different. Thats to me.
For the money the GT350 can't be beat for a performance package. Thats why I bought a Boss 302 to track and not a Porsche 997. The Boss was near as fast and light years less money to maintain and fix. If i stuffed my Boss into a tire wall, yeah I'd be very upset. However, the cost to fix it is a fraction of what it would cost for a 997 where I would be near inconsolable for weeks.
I see lots of GT350s at shows and car cruises but have not seen one out in the wild. But truth is I have not seen many GT3s out in the wild either. Rare. Come to think of it I think I have seen one Boss 302 in the last 4 years out in the wild.
Fit and finish? Come on its a Ford. Let be fair here. If you want fit and finish step up to McClaren, Porsche etc...
Performance. A 991 GT3 will overall leave a GT350 behind especially on tighter circuits. No, a GT350 cannot run with $200K cars. A GT350 would not see where a GT3RS had gone or a Mac 570, 650s, 458, 488, Huracan etc..on any circuit. But lets be fair again. You are paying alot more for the latter than the former.
For the $$$ the GT350 is a great bargain and will provide more performance potential then most here can reach anyway. So what if a Viper ACR or Z06 is faster or the RS is faster? Most can't get 100% out of the GT350 so why do you need faster or more expensive? If you want it and can afford it thats different but that doesn't mean you can actually make use of it.
It comes down to this. How much $$$ do you want to spend just to have fun?
You can have a hoot in a spec Miata which btw I've seen passing much faster cars.
For the money, what Ford is offering at MSRP can't be beat all things considered. Once we get to dealer ADMs the analysis changes. Once ADMs start pushing up against Z06 territory or with the R into Z06 or even ACR territory I buy the Z06 or go the difference and buy the ACR. No brainer.
Last edited by Waxer; 08-06-2016 at 11:22 AM.
08-06-2016, 11:55 AM
#1510
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DerStig, I have to say that is quite the post. It's perfectly fine to change your mind (it is your money after all) although the comparison to Porsche is getting quite ridiculous. It sounds like you haven't driven a GT350? Maybe try that... If you want all looks and quality in something and really don't care how fast it goes buy a Rolex. This is an American made car that is arguably the best bang for the buck in recent history, especially at MSRP. Sure the gaps might not be bang on, or the levelling, guess what you can fix that in most cases. Best of luck in your hunt, you will find something and in the end and it might not be what you're looking for anyways, isn't that the best thing of all? Variety? The best thing about buying rare and desired cars is you can quite often enjoy them for a year or two and break even... God bless the motor vehicle!
Best of luck!
Best of luck!
08-06-2016, 02:54 PM
#1511
Rennlist Member
Your wife just didn't want you to look like a kid in high school who's a total tool. I never liked Mustangs (took a look at the late 90's 32 valve cobra) cuz they have always been a bit meatheadish. Your wife is not totally clueless.
This motor is to the best of my knowledge the largest displacement flat-plane crank V8. And almost as high reving as the largest Ferrari v8 power plants. That's pretty special. Flat plane V8's were once the norm for trucks in the early days.
This motor is to the best of my knowledge the largest displacement flat-plane crank V8. And almost as high reving as the largest Ferrari v8 power plants. That's pretty special. Flat plane V8's were once the norm for trucks in the early days.
08-06-2016, 06:09 PM
#1512
Race Car
Your wife just didn't want you to look like a kid in high school who's a total tool. I never liked Mustangs (took a look at the late 90's 32 valve cobra) cuz they have always been a bit meatheadish. Your wife is not totally clueless.
This motor is to the best of my knowledge the largest displacement flat-plane crank V8. And almost as high reving as the largest Ferrari v8 power plants. That's pretty special. Flat plane V8's were once the norm for trucks in the early days.
This motor is to the best of my knowledge the largest displacement flat-plane crank V8. And almost as high reving as the largest Ferrari v8 power plants. That's pretty special. Flat plane V8's were once the norm for trucks in the early days.
08-07-2016, 12:19 AM
#1514
Nordschleife Master
Empherical data please. On longer circuits no. It's 7 seconds behind the GT3 at the Ring. On shorter technical circuits I seriously doubt it. M3 GTS is faster and the GT3 is faster than the M.
Case in point. Pobst did a 1:57 in the R at Chuckwalla. Patrick Long did a 1:57 at Chuckwalla in a vintage '69 911ST 2.5. Now imagine if he was working with a 991 GT3. Nuff said.
Case in point. Pobst did a 1:57 in the R at Chuckwalla. Patrick Long did a 1:57 at Chuckwalla in a vintage '69 911ST 2.5. Now imagine if he was working with a 991 GT3. Nuff said.
Last edited by Waxer; 08-07-2016 at 01:14 AM.
08-07-2016, 03:59 AM
#1515
Race Car
I remember when the legendary Ford GT returned in 2005 there was always on who would say "yah but it's a Ford."
Last edited by Para82; 08-07-2016 at 09:27 AM.