open letter
05-22-2003, 12:28 PM
#151
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Well it’s half-time folks and time for the RadicalRacer half-time report – brought to you by Momo, makers of the finest driving suits you can get. Whether racing or posing, Momo has a suit for you.
Ghetto Racer opened with a flurry on two web boards (TracQuest & Rennlist) as well as the PDC mailing list with the same post. Mark Dadgar, who runs the PDC mailing list hit GR with a jab and a quick kick in the groin by killing his post immediately – a first in the history of PDC. I bet that Frank aka Ghet O Racer aka og-egg and a bunch of other names wished that he wore a cup for that race.
Over on Rennlist, EJ fires the first shot and Frank sets the tone for the entire battle with his witty come back:
“Read it how you like. But I sure have driven more cars than you'll ever own.”
A mighty blow GR, but that also applies to the Valet at the local mall, so it looks like a big swing and a miss for GR.
A few jabs with no one scoring when GR makes a bold move. He shares with the world his philosophy about driving with such gems as his views on a good HPDE instructor controlling a car through oil. Ooops, a big mistake as we see that GR has never actually had that happen to him, but it does not deter him from insisting he remains an expert. It is now clear why GR has re-surfaced now. His previous engagement came to an end and he is looking for new opportunities. You can't fool us GR, we recognize the unique way that you spin the facts - GR is Baghdad Bob. Go back and read his posts - you will see the connection. Glad to have you back, Bob - we missed you.
As the battle heats up, we find GR moving to the Honda board for support. He can’t find the respect he is looking for on their motorsports forum so he turns to the ITR forum. Frank is preparing for the Mother of All Battles. We have seen this scrappy fighter stupidly take on bigger, stronger & faster opponents in the past – all with the expected results, but this time Frank is taking on the whole world. We see from the Honda board that GR is actually known as “GhettoRacer aka trackula tha numbah one ghetto track ***** supah staaah”
It is a good thing that GR has so many personalities – he is going to need all the help he can get for this fight.
As we move to the next round, we find GR taking a beating on Rennlist. He is under a Haiku attack – even JimBob Jumpback writes one for GR. RadicalRacer offers his “Poseurville” song for GR. GR bobs and weaves, trying to miss the big punches, but he keeps taking himself out by hitting his own head. I’ve never seen a fight like this one. GR tries a low blow with “"typical Porsche/BMW/rich guy." but it has no effect and the opponents keep coming. He manages to insult Tony C – professional racer. GR back peddles offering free one-on-one instruction at the upcoming TracQuest event. Tony reminds him that is not GR’s event and the word is that GR is not even a TQ instructor any longer - he should really check with the organizer before trying to assume control of the event. Easy mistake – GR takes control of other people’s cars, why not other people’s events.
Things are better for him on the Honda board – he is getting some support – desperately needed support. Suddenly the direction turns and GR is saying things that are stupid beyond belief as the Honda crowd becomes hostile. Now GR is the subject of attention on Corner-Carvers and even Fun Cars. Suddenly GR opens with a huge punch “but look at my perspective. if help 2 students just as much. one would reward me with a few laps in their cars (benefits both of us), one is like no way dude. guess which one i'm going to help again next time i see them? am i being a bastard for making a choice?”
OMG – he punched himself in the groin. The fans are going wild – we have never seen such a display of pugilistic ineptitude. GR goes down, GR goes down, GR goes down screams the announcer. He takes the count, but Honda-Tech goes down for maintenance and GR is saved by the bell.
The bell rings for the next round, and Frank slowly comes out. It looks like he might be through. RadicalRacer tosses a weak jab on the TracQuest board and Frank lashes out with a counter punch – it misses – what a surprise. GR posts on Corner Carvers and more on Honda and sticks his foot in his mouth on PDC. Oh, what’s this – it appears that GR has been uninvited from the upcoming Laguna Seca event. What a blow to GR – what will happen to all those personal students now?
GR tries to get everyone to stop, but will not stop posting himself. He tells RadicalRacer to get a life and orders him to stop posting. The bell rings and we are now half way through this battle.
What will happen now? GR has lost the opportunity to drive a bunch of cars Friday. He is getting slammed on Rennlist, TracQuest, PDC, Corner Carver & Honda Tech plus Fun Cars. Where else – there must be some more that we are missing and we are determined to find them and report on all the battles. Stay tuned for the second half of the Mother Of All Battles.
Ghetto Racer opened with a flurry on two web boards (TracQuest & Rennlist) as well as the PDC mailing list with the same post. Mark Dadgar, who runs the PDC mailing list hit GR with a jab and a quick kick in the groin by killing his post immediately – a first in the history of PDC. I bet that Frank aka Ghet O Racer aka og-egg and a bunch of other names wished that he wore a cup for that race.
Over on Rennlist, EJ fires the first shot and Frank sets the tone for the entire battle with his witty come back:
“Read it how you like. But I sure have driven more cars than you'll ever own.”
A mighty blow GR, but that also applies to the Valet at the local mall, so it looks like a big swing and a miss for GR.
A few jabs with no one scoring when GR makes a bold move. He shares with the world his philosophy about driving with such gems as his views on a good HPDE instructor controlling a car through oil. Ooops, a big mistake as we see that GR has never actually had that happen to him, but it does not deter him from insisting he remains an expert. It is now clear why GR has re-surfaced now. His previous engagement came to an end and he is looking for new opportunities. You can't fool us GR, we recognize the unique way that you spin the facts - GR is Baghdad Bob. Go back and read his posts - you will see the connection. Glad to have you back, Bob - we missed you.
As the battle heats up, we find GR moving to the Honda board for support. He can’t find the respect he is looking for on their motorsports forum so he turns to the ITR forum. Frank is preparing for the Mother of All Battles. We have seen this scrappy fighter stupidly take on bigger, stronger & faster opponents in the past – all with the expected results, but this time Frank is taking on the whole world. We see from the Honda board that GR is actually known as “GhettoRacer aka trackula tha numbah one ghetto track ***** supah staaah”
It is a good thing that GR has so many personalities – he is going to need all the help he can get for this fight.
As we move to the next round, we find GR taking a beating on Rennlist. He is under a Haiku attack – even JimBob Jumpback writes one for GR. RadicalRacer offers his “Poseurville” song for GR. GR bobs and weaves, trying to miss the big punches, but he keeps taking himself out by hitting his own head. I’ve never seen a fight like this one. GR tries a low blow with “"typical Porsche/BMW/rich guy." but it has no effect and the opponents keep coming. He manages to insult Tony C – professional racer. GR back peddles offering free one-on-one instruction at the upcoming TracQuest event. Tony reminds him that is not GR’s event and the word is that GR is not even a TQ instructor any longer - he should really check with the organizer before trying to assume control of the event. Easy mistake – GR takes control of other people’s cars, why not other people’s events.
Things are better for him on the Honda board – he is getting some support – desperately needed support. Suddenly the direction turns and GR is saying things that are stupid beyond belief as the Honda crowd becomes hostile. Now GR is the subject of attention on Corner-Carvers and even Fun Cars. Suddenly GR opens with a huge punch “but look at my perspective. if help 2 students just as much. one would reward me with a few laps in their cars (benefits both of us), one is like no way dude. guess which one i'm going to help again next time i see them? am i being a bastard for making a choice?”
OMG – he punched himself in the groin. The fans are going wild – we have never seen such a display of pugilistic ineptitude. GR goes down, GR goes down, GR goes down screams the announcer. He takes the count, but Honda-Tech goes down for maintenance and GR is saved by the bell.
The bell rings for the next round, and Frank slowly comes out. It looks like he might be through. RadicalRacer tosses a weak jab on the TracQuest board and Frank lashes out with a counter punch – it misses – what a surprise. GR posts on Corner Carvers and more on Honda and sticks his foot in his mouth on PDC. Oh, what’s this – it appears that GR has been uninvited from the upcoming Laguna Seca event. What a blow to GR – what will happen to all those personal students now?
GR tries to get everyone to stop, but will not stop posting himself. He tells RadicalRacer to get a life and orders him to stop posting. The bell rings and we are now half way through this battle.
What will happen now? GR has lost the opportunity to drive a bunch of cars Friday. He is getting slammed on Rennlist, TracQuest, PDC, Corner Carver & Honda Tech plus Fun Cars. Where else – there must be some more that we are missing and we are determined to find them and report on all the battles. Stay tuned for the second half of the Mother Of All Battles.
05-22-2003, 01:11 PM
#152
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I've refrained from posting anything related to this thread until now ( what is the point? ) but Mark ....that was just too damn funny ! And very creative.
Ok, maybe I'll get a kick in while Ghetto boy is down.
I've instructed for almost 3 years, and I have NEVER driven a student's car, no desire. If I feel the student needs a look at the proper line,I'll take him out in MY car. I'm finished,I have to get back to installing my motor for the next event.
Ok, maybe I'll get a kick in while Ghetto boy is down.
I've instructed for almost 3 years, and I have NEVER driven a student's car, no desire. If I feel the student needs a look at the proper line,I'll take him out in MY car. I'm finished,I have to get back to installing my motor for the next event.
05-22-2003, 01:22 PM
#153
Lifetime Rennlist Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Howard:
<strong>I've refrained from posting anything related to this thread until now ( what is the point? ) but Mark ....that was just too damn funny ! And very creative.
Ok, maybe I'll get a kick in while Ghetto boy is down.
I've instructed for almost 3 years, and I have NEVER driven a student's car, no desire. If I feel the student needs a look at the proper line,I'll take him out in MY car. I'm finished,I have to get back to installing my motor for the next event. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thank you - I'll be here all week. Try the Prime Rib.
<strong>I've refrained from posting anything related to this thread until now ( what is the point? ) but Mark ....that was just too damn funny ! And very creative.
Ok, maybe I'll get a kick in while Ghetto boy is down.
I've instructed for almost 3 years, and I have NEVER driven a student's car, no desire. If I feel the student needs a look at the proper line,I'll take him out in MY car. I'm finished,I have to get back to installing my motor for the next event.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thank you - I'll be here all week. Try the Prime Rib.
05-22-2003, 01:41 PM
#154
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For reference, Ghetto's fame has spread to smaller internet discussion boards and email digests within the BMW community as well. Methinks he's going to be hard pressed to ever find another instructing gig with anyone but the local DMV. We've all heard of him here on the East Coast thanks to the power of the internet, so moving won't solve his problems. Of course, there's always private instruction, because we all know that people with the $$ to afford private instruction are going to look towards a geeky HPDE instructor instead of a licensed professional racer.
The power of the internet: Making sure that loud mouthed, big-headed, foot eating, wannabe racerboys everywhere get to share their views nationwide!
The power of the internet: Making sure that loud mouthed, big-headed, foot eating, wannabe racerboys everywhere get to share their views nationwide!
05-22-2003, 02:06 PM
#155
Burning Brakes
Apparenty pro instructors think there is value to driving a student's car "at speed". Case in point: Bill Auberlan and Boris Said at PCA Advanced DE yesterday and today at Watkins Glen. We're not talking ducks-in-a-row here.
So to say it is never useful is not accurate.
PS: This post is not meant to compare GR to a pro instructor but rather to address the issue of an instructor driving a students car. Apparently pros think it is instructional. Whether us lowly PCA instructors should do it is a subject of debate. Discuss.
So to say it is never useful is not accurate.
PS: This post is not meant to compare GR to a pro instructor but rather to address the issue of an instructor driving a students car. Apparently pros think it is instructional. Whether us lowly PCA instructors should do it is a subject of debate. Discuss.
05-22-2003, 02:17 PM
#156
Three Wheelin'
There is one positive to this whole mess, the fun factor has brought pretty respected drivers to this board,(Tony C./Brian W.) Lets hope they stick around and answer some of the really silly questions we may have!!
05-22-2003, 02:23 PM
#157
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JC in NY:
<strong>Apparenty pro instructors think there is value to driving a student's car "at speed". Case in point: Bill Auberlan and Boris Said at PCA Advanced DE yesterday and today at Watkins Glen. We're not talking ducks-in-a-row here.
So to say it is never useful is not accurate.
PS: This post is not meant to compare GR to a pro instructor but rather to address the issue of an instructor driving a students car. Apparently pros think it is instructional. Whether us lowly PCA instructors should do it is a subject of debate. Discuss. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">JC,
I agree having a pro drive your car is a great way to learn. I think I have overcome several hurdles by having a couple guys drive my car. Also they are often very quick to point out set up changes that may be off slightly. I know that I could drive a student's car and help them out but I am not ready for that responsibility, there is too much risk. I prefer to instruct from the passenger seat.
Having a pro drive your car also has entertainment value. Getting a front row seat to watch a top driver work your car is a blast. I have a friend that is top notch with lots of credentials and it is almost as much fun to watch him drive as it is to be driving. His smoothness, quickness and car control are something to behold. It is always a humbling experience as well.
<strong>Apparenty pro instructors think there is value to driving a student's car "at speed". Case in point: Bill Auberlan and Boris Said at PCA Advanced DE yesterday and today at Watkins Glen. We're not talking ducks-in-a-row here.
So to say it is never useful is not accurate.
PS: This post is not meant to compare GR to a pro instructor but rather to address the issue of an instructor driving a students car. Apparently pros think it is instructional. Whether us lowly PCA instructors should do it is a subject of debate. Discuss.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">JC,I agree having a pro drive your car is a great way to learn. I think I have overcome several hurdles by having a couple guys drive my car. Also they are often very quick to point out set up changes that may be off slightly. I know that I could drive a student's car and help them out but I am not ready for that responsibility, there is too much risk. I prefer to instruct from the passenger seat.
Having a pro drive your car also has entertainment value. Getting a front row seat to watch a top driver work your car is a blast. I have a friend that is top notch with lots of credentials and it is almost as much fun to watch him drive as it is to be driving. His smoothness, quickness and car control are something to behold. It is always a humbling experience as well.
05-22-2003, 03:06 PM
#159
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I agree with Greg and JC as well. I had a senior instructor,very experienced racer, drive my car after he checked me off for the upcoming club race. It was fun watching him and he demonstrated clearly how much more I have to learn! He was also very quick to identify shortcomings of my car setup and I was able to pick up a few tricks from him that helped me during the race.
While asking to drive a car is very rude I think, a ride with an racing instructor at speed is very educational when you are at the advanced stages or start to race. I also think that riding in the instructors car is even better because the instructor knows 100% their car and what it can do so you get some very meaningful seat time. My senior instructor told me he would prefer to take me with his car out, only problem was that his car has only one seat
Mr GR has managed to dig a huge hole for himself and even people who do not know him like me have a bad impression already... Now sadly he is going to loose what he seems to love genuingly.
While asking to drive a car is very rude I think, a ride with an racing instructor at speed is very educational when you are at the advanced stages or start to race. I also think that riding in the instructors car is even better because the instructor knows 100% their car and what it can do so you get some very meaningful seat time. My senior instructor told me he would prefer to take me with his car out, only problem was that his car has only one seat
Mr GR has managed to dig a huge hole for himself and even people who do not know him like me have a bad impression already... Now sadly he is going to loose what he seems to love genuingly.
05-22-2003, 03:28 PM
#160
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In a sense, I agree that it's sad that someone who seems so passionate about driving is quickly losing most of his oppurtunities to do so. At the same time, his attitude and opinions are so far from where they should be, I wouldn't feel safe sharing the track with him or placing a student in a car with him at a HPDE. Now if he wants to "race", he needs to build a race car and race. No matter how good of an instructor he is, it will certainly be a learning experience...and if he pulls any of his B.S. with the Spec Miater crowd, he will quickly be dealt a quick tap to the rear fender mid-turn. Racing has a way of taking care of it's "big talkers".
I think the best thing Ghetto can do is go back to being a student for a couple months. When he realizes that he isn't a master, and finds that most of what he has accomplished in driving thus far is the "easy" part, he'll be a lot more managable. His helmet might even fit over his head as well. An ego can under proper control can take you far (and is absolutely necessary for driving competitively)...when out of control, it can strip you of your passions rather quickly. As it was stated earlier, mastery is understanding just how much more you have to learn.
Ghetto - Take a step back and rethink things. If you truly have a passion for driving and helping others learn to drive, you'll start over and work your way back. Things said on the internet can be forgiven if you let your actions speak louder and use a little humility along the way.
I think the best thing Ghetto can do is go back to being a student for a couple months. When he realizes that he isn't a master, and finds that most of what he has accomplished in driving thus far is the "easy" part, he'll be a lot more managable. His helmet might even fit over his head as well. An ego can under proper control can take you far (and is absolutely necessary for driving competitively)...when out of control, it can strip you of your passions rather quickly. As it was stated earlier, mastery is understanding just how much more you have to learn.
Ghetto - Take a step back and rethink things. If you truly have a passion for driving and helping others learn to drive, you'll start over and work your way back. Things said on the internet can be forgiven if you let your actions speak louder and use a little humility along the way.
05-22-2003, 03:47 PM
#161
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Mark,
Just a little constructive criticism.
To take it to the next level, perhaps you could do the blow-by-blow in Iambic Pentameter.
Something along the lines of Mohammed Ali interviewing with Howard Cosell previewing the Frazier fight.
By the way, I've read "Going Faster" three times now, do you think I'm ready to instruct a DE? <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
Just a little constructive criticism.
To take it to the next level, perhaps you could do the blow-by-blow in Iambic Pentameter.
Something along the lines of Mohammed Ali interviewing with Howard Cosell previewing the Frazier fight.
By the way, I've read "Going Faster" three times now, do you think I'm ready to instruct a DE? <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
05-22-2003, 03:51 PM
#162
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong> I have a friend that is top notch with lots of credentials and it is almost as much fun to watch him drive as it is to be driving. His smoothness, quickness and car control are something to behold. It is always a humbling experience as well.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Greg, I'm blushing. Thanks, but I told you to keep that a secret. I enjoy my position on HWFMR too much.
<strong> I have a friend that is top notch with lots of credentials and it is almost as much fun to watch him drive as it is to be driving. His smoothness, quickness and car control are something to behold. It is always a humbling experience as well.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Greg, I'm blushing. Thanks, but I told you to keep that a secret. I enjoy my position on HWFMR too much.
05-22-2003, 04:14 PM
#163
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EJ,
LOL! It is fun to watch you drive my car, but not for those reasons. You have the clutch stall, start, herky,jerky release combo down pat.
You are a great instructor and motivator, when I think I am not driving very well it is good to see someone that drives worse. Your DFL finish was an inspiration to use all...
LOL! It is fun to watch you drive my car, but not for those reasons. You have the clutch stall, start, herky,jerky release combo down pat.
You are a great instructor and motivator, when I think I am not driving very well it is good to see someone that drives worse.
Your DFL finish was an inspiration to use all...
05-22-2003, 04:18 PM
#164
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>EJ,
LOL! It is fun to watch you drive my car, but not for those reasons. You have the clutch stall, start, herky,jerky release combo down pat.
You are a great instructor and motivator, when I think I am not driving very well it is good to see someone that drives worse. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Are you sure that was me? And not some instructor in a red suit claiming to be me?
<strong>EJ,
LOL! It is fun to watch you drive my car, but not for those reasons. You have the clutch stall, start, herky,jerky release combo down pat.
You are a great instructor and motivator, when I think I am not driving very well it is good to see someone that drives worse.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Are you sure that was me? And not some instructor in a red suit claiming to be me?
05-22-2003, 04:31 PM
#165
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by E. J. - 993 Alumni:
<strong>Are you sure that was me? And not some instructor in a red suit claiming to be me?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yes. I offered my car to you. I think the red suited instructor would have asked me and I would have said no!
<strong>Are you sure that was me? And not some instructor in a red suit claiming to be me?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yes. I offered my car to you. I think the red suited instructor would have asked me and I would have said no!