</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Professor Helmüt Tester:
<strong>I would be remiss if I didn't offer a word of thanks to the Subie driver, whoever he is. He has offered himself up as an abject lesson in "oh ****, I wish I hadn't done that", which is the exact opposite of what we are facing at ghetto-racer.com.

Subie driver understood his mistake and was self-confident enough to post his video far and wide as an abject lesson, and he understands that. My wine glass is lifted to you (Benziger Chardonnay - Carneros 2001, at the moment), Mr. Sube. Your willingness to share in one of (what must have been) your lower moments is appreciated in ways that you may not now understand, but I'll put you into the pantheon of heros with Nathan Hale, etc. While I don't mean to trivialize Mr. Hale's sacrifice, I do respect your willingness to expose yourself to criticism, derision, abuse and humiliation, all in the name of making us all aware of the consequences.

Bless you, my son.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Here here!

Ah, but Professor, if you were a good true Deutscher you would be toasting mit bier!

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Prosit!

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Professor Helmüt Tester:
<strong>The available info in the video does NOT give enough clues to determine what happened. You can't hear the throttle pick up or lift off, you can't tell what the brakes or suspension were doing, you have no "heinie-dyno" to feel the chassis. You can't tell anything from the video, other than "probably going too fast, probably trying too hard to stick with the Porkchop in front, probably pinched the corner off".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Nicht so Herr Professor. You can see he turned in early. I could tell this even before I noticed the cone on the left side of the track and I haven't even run at LRP. Definitely early turn-in.

You can see clearly that the 911 never leaves the center of the windscreen at the fateful corner. Clearly target fixation.

There are very definitely lessons that can be learned from this video based upon examining the events as they occured. Like I said, I'm not trying to be critical. Just trying to take lessons away from this.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Ahmet:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by David Edwards:
<strong>George,
I'd be interested in seeing that video. I'm into learning from others' mistakes, especially starting out in DE.

David</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I believe you're looking for Patrick Olsen's crash video, and here it is:

<a href="http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Video%20clips/LRP%20August%202000/thecrash.mpg" target="_blank">http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Video%20clips/LRP%20August%202000/thecrash.mpg</a>
Ahmet</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Good argument for a proper roll cage... scary.

 

This wasn't a problem with early turn in which he definately did, but the problem with early apex comes at the track out when one runs out of track. This occured at the turn in and it makes more sense that he lifted or hit an elevation or was abrupt with steering input. either way, too little talent mixed with too much confidence.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by mitch236:
<strong>This wasn't a problem with early turn in which he definately did, but the problem with early apex comes at the track out when one runs out of track. This occured at the turn in and it makes more sense that he lifted or hit an elevation or was abrupt with steering input. either way, too little talent mixed with too much confidence.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I agree that running out of track was an issue. The early turn-in directly lead to this which I think you are agreeing with.

I watched the video again last night and didn't see any abrupt steering input. I'd guess and this is purely a guess, that he was heavy on the brakes, thus transferring load to the front tires and improving grip, and when he turned the wheel in an attempt to make the corner, the light rear end came around through lack of grip due to so much forward load transfer.

That's my guess, but as Herr Professor said, this is purely guessing now on our parts.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong> it makes more sense that he lifted or hit an elevation or was abrupt with steering input. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">There's a thought, too, that he didn't brake, or brake enough. Note how quickly he gains on the 911 before spinning. And that is one of two places on the track that really require braking.

 

Ahh..one of the problems with target fixation. this dude was trying to catch that grey 911 in front of him and did not brake enough (at all?)going into the turn.

Third gear hits the redline before the end of the straight that leads into the uphill. You see him shift about midway down the straight. Rather than downshifting to third, the driver is taking the turn in fourth. If you hit the apex correctly you come out of the turn with enough rpm and torque for the next straight.

As the professor said, we can't see his feet, but I am guessing he realized he missed the apex and is carrying too much speed. He lifts throttle and after that he sets in motion an irreversible series of events. Both feet in won't help him at this point - he is headed for the pasture

As he slides into the grass, plowing sideways through the soil, his tires dig deep enough to produce the flip.

He was nowhere close to the crest of that hill when he went into the spin.

 

He just totally screwed up that turn. Didn't do too good on the ones before either!
Didn't break hard enough and get to the turn in cone to set him self up for the uphill. Pinching the apex was his biggest problem. Should have just went up the hill at an angle with heavy braking.
Once you turn (at the right place) you get on the gas hard going up the hill. Making sure the steering wheel is straight as you cress the hill.
Looks like a typical rookie mistake.

 

Mark Dalen...your posting on the reasoning behind not letting Frank off the hook was well done.

Frank reminded me of a certain other racer you are all too familiar with...a black Titan DSR? Thank you for protesting him. I wish I could have provided a supporting statement but I wasn't near the incident.

It's important for all of us to enforce safety on the track and bring dangerous driving to the attention of the stewards.

We missed you at the Sports Racer Pro race at BW. Someone said that some Radicals "weren't allowed to play". Too bad because it was great to have an all sports racer group and a higher car count. We had a ton of track time too. I did see your trailer parked over by the shops, however.

Any plans to come up to Sears or Laguna this season?

PS...I'm still laughing over the Haiku. You guys just took two hours of my life but at least I was chuckling the whole time. I should be packing - heading to Le Mans with The Racers Group on Tuesday!

 

Forgive me if this has already been pointed out. The very beginning of the tape you see the mic on the dash, the car is waaaaayyyyy loose and the driver is BMOC(Big Man On Campus) around turn 1 and 2. Sounds like street tires and overinflation from heat is normal. Whatever he had issues with everycorner. The turn at the up hill is no place to screw up as many of you know (even us ***** PCA racers). The exit to the chicane looks like his landing spot but he wrote the check before the end of the curbing.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by bill walczak:
<strong>The turn at the up hill is no place to screw up as many of you know (even us ***** PCA racers).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

I was just asking Greg tonight how best to join the ranks of C-class "pussies" next year. Trying to decide if I should be a TT or RS "*****". <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Personally, since I'm not looking to become a pro racer, I like the idea of disincentives to destroying bodywork at every race.

 

PCA...***** Club Racing.

 

Grand Am drivers asked me how I liked "pic-nic racing", refering to PCA.

Now you can return to tearing up GR!

Mike, See you at the Glen this week!

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JBH:
<strong>As he slides into the grass, plowing sideways through the soil, his tires dig deep enough to produce the flip.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sure am glad most of the tracks out west have dirt in the runoff areas instead of that damn grass.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by pig4bill:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JBH:
<strong>As he slides into the grass, plowing sideways through the soil, his tires dig deep enough to produce the flip.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sure am glad most of the tracks out west have dirt in the runoff areas instead of that damn grass.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You can flip just as easily with dirt run off as you can in grass. Grass (if not too soft) may actually be better since it will let you slide and has a lower grip co-efficient than sand or soft dirt.
The best thing is to not go off sideways, if you have to go off, go off straight.