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I like watching your helmet cam view for a better
feel of what you are doing - at least trying to figure out
what I can emulate.
Could you add a 4th cam - windshield mount -
so mortals could benefit
I'm also just glad I wasn't in the way on those laps.
I'm surprised you don't have the stiffer springs already.
If you had those and the DSC...
Towhook cam gives you the best sense of speed. The problem with it is that it is canted to the right, so you can't see what I'm doing with the left side of the track. In the past, I've placed a camera by the rear left wheel to see how close I'm getting to the edge of the track on the left side. Maybe I'll ditch the camera pointed at me next time and switch to the side camera.
I don't know if the DSC and stiffer springs work well together or not. Since I have the DSC, I'll stick with that first and see what happens with tire wear. If still uneven, I'll add camber and/or springs
Quick question, did you order boots for all your suspension stuff from Tarett? Looks like not, just wondering why/ why not.
Thanks. I don't think my car needs boots. It's primarily driven at the track. No snow or salt on the roads. Which components are boots offered? The monoballs have rubber seals already.
IMO this is a noteworthy preliminary endorsement for using the DSC system on a track focused car.
#3 hasn't been a big issue yet at my level but 1 & 2 are noticeable and it's all about confidence. Looking forward to hearing your conclusions on the unit in the near future.
Originally Posted by orthojoe
This brings me into discussion of the DSCsport unit. Some may recall my skepticism of the device. Well, the folks at DSCsport called me out and gave me the opportunity to test the device for them. The first unit I ran 2 weeks ago was defective, so I was sent a new one to run this past Friday. I ran the GT4 the first half of the day with the stock PASM system. The second half of the day I ran the DSCsport unit. My thoughts:
1) The car dives less under braking
2) The car leans less under cornering
3) Corner entry oversteer cured
I still don't believe the unit will magically make the car itself 2 seconds faster, HOWEVER:
1) Now that corner entry oversteer is cured, you can enter a corner more confidently and get more CONSISTENT laps. The first half of the day, I had to work hard to get 3:12 laps. The second half of the day I was able to easily get 3:12 laps over and over with a 3:11 best lap. Was it me or the the DSC unit? I think a bit of both, but I don't think it was all me.
2) Less dive under braking lets you enter the corner in a more stable position
3) With less dive and lean, will the front tires wear more evenly without needing more negative camber? I really want to find out. I'll be mounting a new set of RE71 and will run the DSC unit and monitor tire wear. If the DSCsport unit cures the tire wear problem as well, I think a compelling argument can be made about the device.
4) I will continue to test the device on the GT4 both with and without the unit and find more information.
Question on the G forces which are a little hard to follow as they are very jittery ( at least in this view)
I have even stubbornly using the TPA app and it shows them in a more stable way which allows me to see in which corners I leave speed on the table.
My good corners I can get high 1.2x but my left differs from my right often by at least .1 and I am not yet consistent enough corner to corner and lap yo lap.
I had a Peter argenzinger drive it and he was crazy consistently laying down 1.34 and 1.33
This brings me into discussion of the DSCsport unit. Some may recall my skepticism of the device. Well, the folks at DSCsport called me out and gave me the opportunity to test the device for them. The first unit I ran 2 weeks ago was defective, so I was sent a new one to run this past Friday. I ran the GT4 the first half of the day with the stock PASM system. The second half of the day I ran the DSCsport unit. My thoughts:
1) The car dives less under braking
2) The car leans less under cornering
3) Corner entry oversteer cured
I still don't believe the unit will magically make the car itself 2 seconds faster, HOWEVER:
1) Now that corner entry oversteer is cured, you can enter a corner more confidently and get more CONSISTENT laps. The first half of the day, I had to work hard to get 3:12 laps. The second half of the day I was able to easily get 3:12 laps over and over with a 3:11 best lap. Was it me or the the DSC unit? I think a bit of both, but I don't think it was all me.
2) Less dive under braking lets you enter the corner in a more stable position
3) With less dive and lean, will the front tires wear more evenly without needing more negative camber? I really want to find out. I'll be mounting a new set of RE71 and will run the DSC unit and monitor tire wear. If the DSCsport unit cures the tire wear problem as well, I think a compelling argument can be made about the device.
4) I will continue to test the device on the GT4 both with and without the unit and find more information.
Joe,
Glad you decided to give the DSC a shot. I had very similar results first time out. Consistency was the biggest improvement for me as well as nearly a full second better fastest time, maybe because of the extra confidence it gives. Hard to put a number on it, but I was pleased with the results. Hoping they keep improving and updating it over time.
It'd be ideal if someone could work with you to enable and disable the DSC unit between different sets of runs without telling you which is which, and then record your feedback each time. I think it's too easy for placebo to bias what you can be concinced you feel...
Originally Posted by orthojoe
I talked to buddy who is a pro driver about the front tire wear. He said to leave my tire pressures alone overnight and see what they read the following day. If they are all about the same, then more camber is needed. If the front is much lower, than I am overdriving the tires and the car. I checked this morning and my tire pressures were even across all 4 tires. So, it looks like I'm not overdriving the tires.
So the suggestion is to run more camber. I'm currently at -2.8. I could add more, but others have said that the outer edge wear doesn't go away even with added camber. USCTrojan has found that adding stiffer front springs evens out the tire wear. This looks like a potential solution as well.
This brings me into discussion of the DSCsport unit. Some may recall my skepticism of the device. Well, the folks at DSCsport called me out and gave me the opportunity to test the device for them. The first unit I ran 2 weeks ago was defective, so I was sent a new one to run this past Friday. I ran the GT4 the first half of the day with the stock PASM system. The second half of the day I ran the DSCsport unit. My thoughts:
1) The car dives less under braking
2) The car leans less under cornering
3) Corner entry oversteer cured
I still don't believe the unit will magically make the car itself 2 seconds faster, HOWEVER:
1) Now that corner entry oversteer is cured, you can enter a corner more confidently and get more CONSISTENT laps. The first half of the day, I had to work hard to get 3:12 laps. The second half of the day I was able to easily get 3:12 laps over and over with a 3:11 best lap. Was it me or the the DSC unit? I think a bit of both, but I don't think it was all me.
2) Less dive under braking lets you enter the corner in a more stable position
3) With less dive and lean, will the front tires wear more evenly without needing more negative camber? I really want to find out. I'll be mounting a new set of RE71 and will run the DSC unit and monitor tire wear. If the DSCsport unit cures the tire wear problem as well, I think a compelling argument can be made about the device.
4) I will continue to test the device on the GT4 both with and without the unit and find more information.
Question on the G forces which are a little hard to follow as they are very jittery ( at least in this view)
I have even stubbornly using the TPA app and it shows them in a more stable way which allows me to see in which corners I leave speed on the table.
My good corners I can get high 1.2x but my left differs from my right often by at least .1 and I am not yet consistent enough corner to corner and lap yo lap.
I had a Peter argenzinger drive it and he was crazy consistently laying down 1.34 and 1.33
I was wondering what you see in this space
Joes GG graph probably shows him over 1.4Gs. Its easy to build this from the Solo DL data.
Question on the G forces which are a little hard to follow as they are very jittery ( at least in this view)
I have even stubbornly using the TPA app and it shows them in a more stable way which allows me to see in which corners I leave speed on the table.
My good corners I can get high 1.2x but my left differs from my right often by at least .1 and I am not yet consistent enough corner to corner and lap yo lap.
I had a Peter argenzinger drive it and he was crazy consistently laying down 1.34 and 1.33
I was wondering what you see in this space
My G force meter looks jittery because it is recording at a very high rate of 50Hz. If I slow it down, it would look smoother, but it would also be less accurate. When I look at the bar, I like to pay attention to a few things:
1) What is the sustained G? A spike in G's doesn't mean much to me because you could be hitting a bump, hitting a cambered corner, or compressing down from a hill. Listen to the tire noise and what is happening to the car at those Gs.
2) Don't just pick any corner. Pick a corner that is flat and a fairly wide radius to see what the tires can really sustain. At Thunderhill, I like to pick Turn 2 and Turn 6 because they are flat and long corners. If you pick something like the bottom of the corkscrew, you'll get spikes of 1.5 or 1.6Gs, which is not what cup2 tires are capable of sustaining
3) Are we comparing apples to apples? Is the accelerometer calibrated? On the Aim unit, it can display Gs based on GPS calculations, or based on the internal acclerometer. The internal accelerometer is more accurate, BUT you need to calibrate it every time the timer position is moved and it needs to be calibrated in the car using a laptop. A PITA, unfortunately.
What I have seen with the cup2 and RE71R is that the tires will sustain close to 1.3G, but if you go over 1.3G, the car breaks away. Your goal will be to get 1.3G on any corner that isn't off camber. If you go below that, you aren't the limit of the tire. I love watching Gs at T1 at Laguna and T7 at Thunderhill. Those turns are all turns that can be done flat out. It's a leap of faith, but if you watch the data, on those turns even though you are going flat out, the G's don't hit the limit of 1.3G. That is why it can be done flat out.
Originally Posted by Eric5280
Joe,
Glad you decided to give the DSC a shot. I had very similar results first time out. Consistency was the biggest improvement for me as well as nearly a full second better fastest time, maybe because of the extra confidence it gives. Hard to put a number on it, but I was pleased with the results. Hoping they keep improving and updating it over time.
Agree that it's hard to put a number on it, and I think it gave me close to a second of time based on confidence as well.
Originally Posted by Mech33
It'd be ideal if someone could work with you to enable and disable the DSC unit between different sets of runs without telling you which is which, and then record your feedback each time. I think it's too easy for placebo to bias what you can be concinced you feel...
Agree with you as well and that is a great idea. Come to my private track day on 9/9 and I'll have you guys switch the unit on me without me knowing between runs. Mark down what I'm driving with, and I'll come in and guess if I'm stock or not. That would be a really cool experiment.
Originally Posted by katmeho
Joes GG graph probably shows him over 1.4Gs. Its easy to build this from the Solo DL data.
Depends on which corner. 1.4G coming down the crows nest, yes. 1.4G through T2 at thill, no. That is why the actual corner which the number is being read is important. Sustained 1.4G can only be seen with tires like a Hoosier R7.
I figure this is a good of a place to share this. First day out on the GT4. I would like to share some initial impressions.
I was last at thunderhill 5 miles in April with my cayman GTS and I ran a 3:21.
This time out with the GT4 , I was running 3:20's all day long. The car is way more capable than I am at this point. It does not get out of sorts no matter how much bad input I throw at it.
Brakes- AWESOME. I wanted to run stock everything before I start messing around. The stopping power is just unbelievable. I did get some fade from the pad towards the end of a 30 minute session, but its a 30 min session.
I would prefer a bit more bite so I may get some new pads for next track date.
Tires- Cup2 are great. They respond well to 32-33 PSI how front and rear. I think they maybe a touch sticker than NT01.. but my memory may escape me.
Alignment- Based on Orthojoe's rec, I ran 2.7 front and 2.4 rear. Tire wear is as expected.
Outside and inside wear a bit more and the middle not so much.
Left Front
Left Rear
Right front
Right rear
By the end of the day, I was able to run several 3.16's... Not quite orthojoe but a pb for me.
One last thing, I decided to try cquartz finest for the car this time when I got the car clear bra'd. After a car wash things AM, I would say meh... The car was a bit easier to clean but the tire marks still required Mother's R3. One positive note, the tires were so much easier to clean because of the Cquartz. Also I never have to wax the car which also saves a lot of time.
When I get a chance, I will put some videos together!
Thanks Mooty for putting this together!!!
Thanks. I don't think my car needs boots. It's primarily driven at the track. No snow or salt on the roads. Which components are boots offered? The monoballs have rubber seals already.
Makes sense, just FYI I think the drop links and rear toe links have boot options.
06-18-2016, 09:56 PM
