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Old 09-10-2018 | 06:21 PM
  #3226  
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Originally Posted by Craigy
Several of you thinking prices on current GT4 will go up when the new one is announced... just going to say you wouldn't make for good economists.

The new one could literally just be a 2019 model year of the 981 for more money and it would still depress the market, just for the simple fact that there will now be more cars. In all likelihood the car will be improved at least marginally, but we do know for a certainty that they will all be three years newer.
This is totally true, and one needn't have an Econ degree from Penn to know it. Just look back at everybody's favorite 911, which was followed by everybody's least favorite 911. I was a Porsche guy in 98 when 993 gave way to 996. Dislike of 996 was far from universal, but many of us old-schoolers were disappointed and instantly knew the 993 was a keeper. And yet still, it's value continued down. The depreciation curve continued downward on the 993 but at a shallower rate than 911s before and after, flattening out much earlier than other 911s, and beginning back upward much sooner than other 911s. But still, you could buy a sub-40k miles '95 993 C2 for $35,000 all day long in 2001/2002, and I saw plenty of cars on either side of $30,000 about that time.

GT4 enjoys the advantage of far fewer units built than 993, and GT car status. But on the flip side of the coin a) it's not a 911, and b) it's successor is likely to enjoy a much better reception than the 996 did. So I would expect a continued retreat of 981 GT4 prices but at a shallower curve than non-GT Porsche sportscars, followed by an earlier flattening and an earlier appreciation curve.
Old 09-10-2018 | 07:47 PM
  #3227  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker
This is totally true, and one needn't have an Econ degree from Penn to know it. Just look back at everybody's favorite 911, which was followed by everybody's least favorite 911. I was a Porsche guy in 98 when 993 gave way to 996. Dislike of 996 was far from universal, but many of us old-schoolers were disappointed and instantly knew the 993 was a keeper. And yet still, it's value continued down. The depreciation curve continued downward on the 993 but at a shallower rate than 911s before and after, flattening out much earlier than other 911s, and beginning back upward much sooner than other 911s. But still, you could buy a sub-40k miles '95 993 C2 for $35,000 all day long in 2001/2002, and I saw plenty of cars on either side of $30,000 about that time.

GT4 enjoys the advantage of far fewer units built than 993, and GT car status. But on the flip side of the coin a) it's not a 911, and b) it's successor is likely to enjoy a much better reception than the 996 did. So I would expect a continued retreat of 981 GT4 prices but at a shallower curve than non-GT Porsche sportscars, followed by an earlier flattening and an earlier appreciation curve.
So keep driving the snot out of it? Got it.

Now, back to cracking Whoopsy's riddle...
Old 09-10-2018 | 08:14 PM
  #3228  
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Originally Posted by switchface
So keep driving the snot out of it?
Hells yeah! But that's true whether the price is about to go up, down or sideways.
Old 09-10-2018 | 11:01 PM
  #3229  
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I'll just keep enjoying the depreciation on mine for a while...
Old 09-10-2018 | 11:11 PM
  #3230  
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Originally Posted by Craigy
Several of you thinking prices on current GT4 will go up when the new one is announced... just going to say you wouldn't make for good economists.

The new one could literally just be a 2019 model year of the 981 for more money and it would still depress the market, just for the simple fact that there will now be more cars. In all likelihood the car will be improved at least marginally, but we do know for a certainty that they will all be three years newer.
You didn’t bother to quote where several have stated that GT4 prices will go up. I read that demand (if I was an economist I might understand the relationship between demand and prices) could go up - depending on multiple variables.

Looks like it will be a 2020 model - 4 yrs newer.
Old 09-11-2018 | 03:53 AM
  #3231  
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As with the 911 range (T, RS...) the GT4 option level will play greatly into it's depreciation. I do not see loaded PTS GT4's depreciating much at all. This is always a topic over here and the 911 "investment" market is starting to plummet.

If yours is well equipped (LWB, Leather, PCCB..etc) I think you'll be fine seeing as so many took mid-level options.
Old 09-11-2018 | 11:48 AM
  #3232  
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Originally Posted by NoGaBiker
This is totally true, and one needn't have an Econ degree from Penn to know it. Just look back at everybody's favorite 911, which was followed by everybody's least favorite 911. I was a Porsche guy in 98 when 993 gave way to 996. Dislike of 996 was far from universal, but many of us old-schoolers were disappointed and instantly knew the 993 was a keeper. And yet still, it's value continued down. The depreciation curve continued downward on the 993 but at a shallower rate than 911s before and after, flattening out much earlier than other 911s, and beginning back upward much sooner than other 911s. But still, you could buy a sub-40k miles '95 993 C2 for $35,000 all day long in 2001/2002, and I saw plenty of cars on either side of $30,000 about that time.

GT4 enjoys the advantage of far fewer units built than 993, and GT car status. But on the flip side of the coin a) it's not a 911, and b) it's successor is likely to enjoy a much better reception than the 996 did. So I would expect a continued retreat of 981 GT4 prices but at a shallower curve than non-GT Porsche sportscars, followed by an earlier flattening and an earlier appreciation curve.
Not totally true as its also dependent upon the price of the new car. If its up 15% and if ADMs drive the market like the previous car (doubt it!), then the actual price of the new car at say $140k should lift the current car prices a bit. When I look at the GT4 market, I see a lot of cars that appear to not be in a rush to sell - so I don't see people looking to sell quickly. Youre assuming that the price of the new and older car are close - we do not know that.

In Canada I think that the new car is going to drive the current car prices HIGHER. The only GT4 you can buy in Canada for anywhere near list (still) is a high mileage one. Theyre all 15-25% premiums to list still, and theyre selling (slowly). Currency has moved such that that paying that premium for the Canadian car still makes sense versus buying a discounted one in the US.
Old 09-11-2018 | 11:56 AM
  #3233  
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Originally Posted by Viperguy324
It would seem that people are confusing GT4 vs. GT4 CS. Every single person that I have spoken with that are ring regulars have commented on both the Spyder and GT4 mules as sounding nearly identical to the 991.2 S motor. Fake gurgle and all. The videos seem to back that up.
781 GT4 and GT4CS share the exact same motor. No turbos.
Old 09-11-2018 | 11:59 AM
  #3234  
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Originally Posted by BioBanker
Not totally true as its also dependent upon the price of the new car. If its up 15% and if ADMs drive the market like the previous car (doubt it!), then the actual price of the new car at say $140k should lift the current car prices a bit. When I look at the GT4 market, I see a lot of cars that appear to not be in a rush to sell - so I don't see people looking to sell quickly. Youre assuming that the price of the new and older car are close - we do not know that.

In Canada I think that the new car is going to drive the current car prices HIGHER. The only GT4 you can buy in Canada for anywhere near list (still) is a high mileage one. Theyre all 15-25% premiums to list still, and theyre selling (slowly). Currency has moved such that that paying that premium for the Canadian car still makes sense versus buying a discounted one in the US.
We will see the 981.1 GT4 prices depreciate when the new 981.2 GT4 arrives.
It is the same thing that happens to all .1 GT cars when a .2 arrives.
Old 09-11-2018 | 12:24 PM
  #3235  
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Looks like Cayman T arrives before Cayman GT4
Old 09-11-2018 | 12:35 PM
  #3236  
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Originally Posted by tcsracing1
We will see the 981.1 GT4 prices depreciate when the new 981.2 GT4 arrives.
It is the same thing that happens to all .1 GT cars when a .2 arrives.
This is a pretty fair bet. There’s a lot of GT product on the market right now. Not sure the new GT4 will command high ADM’s unless production is limited and it’s much better car in every aspect. If it’s marginally better I can’t see a lot of current 981.1 owners moving to the 981.2. Even at $125k-$130k your getting into the used 2015 GT3 market which is arguably a better car.
Old 09-11-2018 | 12:41 PM
  #3237  
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Originally Posted by BioBanker
Not totally true as its also dependent upon the price of the new car. If its up 15% and if ADMs drive the market like the previous car (doubt it!), then the actual price of the new car at say $140k should lift the current car prices a bit. When I look at the GT4 market, I see a lot of cars that appear to not be in a rush to sell - so I don't see people looking to sell quickly. Youre assuming that the price of the new and older car are close - we do not know that.
I don't think you are correct about it going up even with a very pricey 718. You are postulating that an unaffordable or unreachable 718GT4 will drive prices upwards on 981 GT4. Yet, right now, today, there is an unaffordable/unreachable 718 GT4, and 981 GT4 prices are what they are. In other words, the basis of your claim is that suddenly the 718 will not be within reach of a bunch of people, so they will all start fighting over 981s, whose supply is limited, so the increased demand will put upward pressure on 981 pricing. But like I said, we have that exact situation today: no affordable 718 GT4 alternative to the 981, so those upward market forces are in fact already in play. Anybody wanting a GT4 is in the 981 buyer pool. Waiting 18-24 months for a 718 to be launched, and then however many more months till they as individuals can get one? That's so far out that I'd posit they're not actual GT4 buyers at this time.

The effect a super pricey 718 would have is not to drive 981 prices above current levels, but merely to prop them up and keep them from falling as fast. Which I believe will be the case, and what I was writing about above. Whether a 718 is 10k more MSRP or 40k more, MSRP still will be at least 20k more than the common transaction price for a used 981, and if you add 10k ADM the gap is even greater. Which will serve to keep 981 pricing healthy and eventually to start it back up. But not during the first year of 718s being out there.
Old 09-11-2018 | 12:42 PM
  #3238  
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Originally Posted by GAZZ
Looks like Cayman T arrives before Cayman GT4
???
Old 09-11-2018 | 12:46 PM
  #3239  
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Originally Posted by sigar


???
There have been rumors of a Cayman T for a while, something like the 911t, base engine + options - weight. Talk about threading the needle in the model lineup....
Old 09-11-2018 | 12:49 PM
  #3240  
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Originally Posted by ajw45
There have been rumors of a Cayman T for a while, something like the 911t, base engine + options - weight. Talk about threading the needle in the model lineup....
But nothing announced, right? I thought I might have missed an announcement or PAG confirmation.


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