cobalt

We'll see. There are a lot of fast cars out there today and I was talking stock. You might be fast in a straight line but the newer cars are just easier to drive fast. Unless you have a highly modified suspension I doubt a blown 928 will be faster on the track than the Panamera. Porsche is going to release a car that is slower around a track than a car last produced in 1995. Kind of doubt it.

What is really scary is I was just up at Monticello Motorpark this past weekend, a new premier track/private club. Amazing facility 4.1 miles something like 20 turns. So far the fastest car recorded is the new Cadillac CTS-V. Not even your Ford GT's GT2's or other cars have been clocked faster. I hate to say it but our cars although great are dinosaurs and with all the technology and ground effects of today's cars even more HP doesn't cut it.

iJeremy

Holy starship-enterprise on the interior. Can you imagine how many things you'd have to reset if you left your kid in the car while you ran in to pay for gas?.... Jee-bus.

hacker-pschorr

It's obvious Anthony is trying very hard to talk himself into buying a Panamera

I would hope it's faster then a stock 928.
If you want to do a fair comparison it comes down to money. What is the Pannamera going to cost? At least $100,000? Dump $90,000 into a $10,000 928 and my money will be on the Shark.

cobalt

Yeah we can always argue that, but that wasn't what I was saying. Although you might have to dump the better part of the $90k to get it to do what the Panamera should be able to do out of the box and all luxuries will be lost and it will drive and feel like a race car and not a luxury sedan.

Don't forget my GTS was $90k new in 1993 and in today's dollars this makes the Panamera a bargain.

BTW I doubt I will buy one ( at least until it depreciates) and as with any newer car it could never replace what I already have. IMO the early mid 90's Porsche's will always be the best of the best for street cars. I doubt I will ever drive a GT car as enjoyable as a 928. There might be faster better handling cars made but nothing is as enjoyable to drive as any of my 93 or 94 MY Porsche's. So unless it is bound for the track enjoyment is key over everything else.

Marine Blue

This is entirely true. I've had the chance to drive newer cars with better performance than the shark but I was bored. New cars are soo refined that car companies intentionally engineer feedback into the car to make the feel sportier. Problem is that it feels artificial and it's obvious if you're used to driving older sports cars.

I am curious what the Panamera will finally look like, I hope they get it right!

Ron_H

I agree. Look at the rear lights. I can't imagine how they could be the final version. Why is the back up light portion and the upper band of red aimed at airplanes? Where is the third brake light? The intrusion of the tail lights into the hatch is absurd as well. I conclude that this is a mule and not near the final form.

Jim bailey - 928 International

At least it has a cup holder !! focus on the positives

Ron_H

Aargh! I take issue with the cupholder in a high speed automobile anywhere near the driver. Lose it, or lose your concentration. Both hands on the wheel please.

worf928

Stock schmock I always compare what can be purchased with what I have or can easily put together.

Don't assume that adding 100+ rwhp to the 928 makes it less capable in the corners. I've always maintained that 928s were under-tired in the front to make them handle more-poorly than the 911. You will be amazed the first time you get to drive a blown 928.

You don't need a highly modified suspension to make a stock-shod 928 much faster on a track. You mainly need bigger front tires.

Come now Anthony. We all know that Porsche specifies its cars' performance for Marketing reasons and that nothing, nothing, in mass-marketed Porsches is allowed to top a 911.

We'll have to wait and see of course. But, one thing I'm virtually certain of is that the Panamera is going to weigh 4000 pounds minimum. My bet is about 4400 pounds. It's going to take 30 years of Porsche engineering to deal with that weight penalty.

Nor will the Panamera have an LSD.

I'm sure the Panamera will be a fine sedan and will perform better than a Toyota. So far, what I've seen gives it as much appeal as a Camry. It simply doesn't elicit enough excitement yet for me to consider it worthy of $100k +/- of my dollars. It's ugly inside and out. The interior as shown is an ergonomic nightmare. Its going to be Sumo-wrestler heavy.

dprantl

QFT about keeping the 911 the king. Porsche could easily have made a 6.0 liter twin-turbo 928 in the early 90's if they wanted. It's not like they didn't have all the stuff lying around already: just take two top ends off a 968 Turbo S, beef up the transmission, torque tube and clutch and you're done. Small details like merging the intakes and widening the fender arches to fit 315/335 tires would be easy. It would put out ~700hp and kill everything even up to this day.

I would also take that bet of pitting the new Panamera to a blown 928. You really must drive a sorted S/C'ed 928 to believe it. And I'm only running 245's / 275's.

Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

cobalt

Well in that case I will raise you my turbo. My experiences driving both cars tells me that a 928 will need extensive work to make it a proper track car. I can guarantee you my turbo will be faster on most tracks than if I supercharged my GTS. I have a friend who drove a GTS on the track for nearly 10 years and now has a 964 RSA and a 993TT and he assures me as I also feel the RSA is a faster car with far less HP and can do things the GTS could never do without structural changes and double the rubber of the RSA.

Not so sure of that. I have tried wider rubber front and rear and my GTS will never be nimble like my C2. Even the staggered track of the turbo takes away some of the agility. I have been up against some nicely set up 928's on the track, the only time a 928 was faster was when it was completely gutted and had extensive stiffening and engine work done and was running full race rubber. Overall my C2 is faster than a GTS or GT on the track unless it is turned into a race car. I would think your Z06 would be far quicker than most 928's.

I am not so concerned with the front of my GTS it is the rear that is the concern in comparison to my 911's. Even with the upgraded suspension I would never comfortably be able to push the 928 as hard as i do either of my 964's. That is not saying anything against the 928 it is still a very capable car.

Conversations with PCNA reps lead me to believe the Panamera will be far less than the weights you are imposing. It should be far closer to the weight of a 997TT than that of the Cayenne.

Well we all know looks are subjective and nothing will ever be as beautiful as the cars that were built from fantasy and not a wind tunnel. But form fallows function and there is not much else I can see working for this platform. Unlike the Aston Martin Rapide which is gorgeous the Panamera will be usable and the Rapide will look great with 2 useless rear seats. IMO Porsche has taken the Rapide and made it a functional sedan and the result is what we are seeing. Not every car can be a sports car when you have a family but there is a market and purpose to these cars and they don't have to be big sedans to hold 4. Hell the new cayenne turbo S can keep up with most modern performance cars on the track why shouldn't a sedan with a better center of gravity be able to out handle an SUV. If Cadillacs CTS-V will blow away most of today's sports cars on the track I am sure this should do quite well.

For me the jury is out and we will have to see what the final product offers before I can say.

hacker-pschorr

There's your problem, starting with a GTS, the heaviest 928 with zero performance advance over earlier models, except for a little extra HP. Yea yea, better transmission that can easily be installed in any 928.

I would bet any reasonable amount that Jean-Louis former Euro would be faster on most tracks then your 964 Turbo. When I say former Euro I mean pre-supercharger.
As for mods, the drivetrain was stock, brake's were stock S units, only mods were for safety (full cage) and stripped interior with additional coolers for the oil and transmission.

Yea yea yea, creature comforts compared to the new car. I don't nee 45 way adjustable seats, 100 speaker surround sound, back massager, four zone climate control, three sunroofs, butler in the glove box or a car that talks to me about dinner reservations. I have a GMC Yukon for these things.

If we keep this conversaion up, someone will eventually mention Mark Anderson's 928........

WTF were we talking about again???

Bill51sdr

Mark's car just makes Cobalt's case.

cobalt

Thank you

hacker-pschorr

Jean-Louis Euro doesn't

I forgot, Paul's GT wasn't far behind (if at all) JL's car. Again, stock drivetrain, brakes etc.....just gutted with safety equipment.