CAYENNE RECALL - Bad Variocam Bolts
09-03-2018, 06:58 AM
#361
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I cant even imagine the amount of work you would put into this engine if you are going to DIY, let alone have it functioning properly.
09-03-2018, 02:54 PM
#362
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I'm rather amazed that TUV - which I believe is responsible for ensuring vehicles and parts are "safe" doesn't have a way to force Porsche to fix the problem in Europe. Or that there is no such protection from any agency in Germany. What agency took the diesel scandal to court? Who put the Audi CEO in jail? If I was in Europe I'd be looking hard and deep for an agency with the powers to do this.
Perhaps this might be a start: https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-e...afety-rules_en - using the known SAFETY recalls in other countries as evidence.
Or perhaps these people might be interested: https://www.beuc.eu/volkswagen-emission-affairs
What I can tell you is that arguing with Porsche on an individual basis will have no real effect on Porsche policy. They may decide you're a PITA to them and to quiet you down they'll take care of the problem. That only helps you. What works is finding something that could possibly cause them to lose or not make money (recall, bad publicity) and they will pay attention. Any car manufacturer considers their first priority to be "selling units".. they issue quarterly reports like clockwork detailing how well (or poorly) they are doing at that. If something impacts that goal negatively - they will try to see what can be done to remove it so units get flowing smoothly out the factory door again.
Once you find the right agency or person - then going to forums where European Cayenne owners might hang out might just be productive. It was in the US. This thread caught the attention of NHTSA investigators due to some people reporting the issues they suffered from the bolt failures. Porsche was notified that an investigation by NHTSA had been opened, and they were presented with the information on recalls Porsche had done in other Asian countries for this issue. At that point rather than have a recall forced on them - a voluntary recall was put in place. The documentation on all of this - including communications between Porsche and NHTSA are all available on the NHTSA website. I believe I've posted some links to it before.
This is something that won't happen without you doing something. Talking about it here may seem cathartic - but it's not productive. Action is productive. This thread is proof of that.
Perhaps this might be a start: https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-e...afety-rules_en - using the known SAFETY recalls in other countries as evidence.
Or perhaps these people might be interested: https://www.beuc.eu/volkswagen-emission-affairs
What I can tell you is that arguing with Porsche on an individual basis will have no real effect on Porsche policy. They may decide you're a PITA to them and to quiet you down they'll take care of the problem. That only helps you. What works is finding something that could possibly cause them to lose or not make money (recall, bad publicity) and they will pay attention. Any car manufacturer considers their first priority to be "selling units".. they issue quarterly reports like clockwork detailing how well (or poorly) they are doing at that. If something impacts that goal negatively - they will try to see what can be done to remove it so units get flowing smoothly out the factory door again.
Once you find the right agency or person - then going to forums where European Cayenne owners might hang out might just be productive. It was in the US. This thread caught the attention of NHTSA investigators due to some people reporting the issues they suffered from the bolt failures. Porsche was notified that an investigation by NHTSA had been opened, and they were presented with the information on recalls Porsche had done in other Asian countries for this issue. At that point rather than have a recall forced on them - a voluntary recall was put in place. The documentation on all of this - including communications between Porsche and NHTSA are all available on the NHTSA website. I believe I've posted some links to it before.
This is something that won't happen without you doing something. Talking about it here may seem cathartic - but it's not productive. Action is productive. This thread is proof of that.
09-04-2018, 01:23 PM
#363
Race Car
And we certainly have Don to thank for getting NHTSA's attention on this matter. I had already paid to have my engine repaired as preventative. The actions of Don (and possibly others) resulted in my reimbursement of $3,000 for the repairs. Thanks Don!
02-26-2019, 04:52 PM
#364
Rennlist Member
Bumping this thread. My 2011 for some strange reason doesn't qualify for the recall fix. I'm changing my oil and decided to stick a mirror inside to look at the bolt and it doesn't have that safety pin in the middle. Does this mean I'm safe?
02-27-2019, 12:05 AM
#365
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So what if someone wanted to be pro-active and do this on their own? I'm confused on why nobody is doing it themselves. I found the timing adjuster for $600 for each side that had the new bolts in them. It looks easy to do. I haven't been able to find the bolts separate, which would be AWESOME...but $1200 is far better than paying the dealer $2400-$3500. So...has anyone done this themselves or just swapped the bolts over?
Interesting. The 2011 Cayenne S I just test drove last weekend is also not on the recall list according to the VIN. I'm going for another test drive soon and had planned to check those bolts.
Interesting. The 2011 Cayenne S I just test drove last weekend is also not on the recall list according to the VIN. I'm going for another test drive soon and had planned to check those bolts.
02-27-2019, 12:33 AM
#366
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Shouid be. Are you the first owner? It's possible the prior owner had it done under WC-22, which covered a very limited number of 2011 cars well before the recall was issued.
02-27-2019, 12:38 AM
#367
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So what if someone wanted to be pro-active and do this on their own? I'm confused on why nobody is doing it themselves. I found the timing adjuster for $600 for each side that had the new bolts in them. It looks easy to do. I haven't been able to find the bolts separate, which would be AWESOME...but $1200 is far better than paying the dealer $2400-$3500. So...has anyone done this themselves or just swapped the bolts over?
Interesting. The 2011 Cayenne S I just test drove last weekend is also not on the recall list according to the VIN. I'm going for another test drive soon and had planned to check those bolts.
Interesting. The 2011 Cayenne S I just test drove last weekend is also not on the recall list according to the VIN. I'm going for another test drive soon and had planned to check those bolts.
BTW - it might no longer be on the recall list if the job was done. Once the job is done the recall information is removed from Porsche's database and the NHTSA database. BTDT (that was complicated too since I'd had it done before the recall existed.)
02-27-2019, 12:48 PM
#368
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Why would one DIY when Porsche in the US will do it for you for free? And provide you with a nice loaner while they do it. I did pay the dealer to do it well before the recall and it wasn't $3,500 - it was sort of reasonable. As far as the bolts - they now can be ordered from Porsche, they have a PN and aren't particularly expensive. That's a fairly easy job (just disassemble the entire intake, take the plugs out, valve covers off, and do one at a time. Piece of cake, I think Porsche allows about 6 hours to do it under the recall.) Replacing the entire Variocam adjuster is more than a simple job, it requires retiming all 4 camshafts, which is possible for a skilled mechanic to screw up (why my engine was R&R's and got rebuilt heads at their expense). It requires a number of special tools, and the average home mechanic - it might be a bit of a reach.
BTW - it might no longer be on the recall list if the job was done. Once the job is done the recall information is removed from Porsche's database and the NHTSA database. BTDT (that was complicated too since I'd had it done before the recall existed.)
BTW - it might no longer be on the recall list if the job was done. Once the job is done the recall information is removed from Porsche's database and the NHTSA database. BTDT (that was complicated too since I'd had it done before the recall existed.)
08-03-2019, 01:51 PM
#369
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My 2012 US Cayenne Turbo 39,000 miles 10/11 had the suspected bolts installed and it was not in the recall. My extended Porsche warranty was still in place.
I contacted with Porsche customer service through my dealership and I got a very rude Porsche service representative calling me and telling I am not cover to do this service as a prevention , and if in the future I would have a problem, may be they will take care of me. I asked for this answer in letter but he denied to send me the letter.
So, I went ahead and replace them on my dealership , and ending paying over $2,000.
The checked my history with Porsche , I owned more than 5 Porsche in the last 15 years, and even though they did not want to make the repair under warranty. I will not buy a Porsche again, they do not care about their customers anymore,
I contacted with Porsche customer service through my dealership and I got a very rude Porsche service representative calling me and telling I am not cover to do this service as a prevention , and if in the future I would have a problem, may be they will take care of me. I asked for this answer in letter but he denied to send me the letter.
So, I went ahead and replace them on my dealership , and ending paying over $2,000.
The checked my history with Porsche , I owned more than 5 Porsche in the last 15 years, and even though they did not want to make the repair under warranty. I will not buy a Porsche again, they do not care about their customers anymore,
08-03-2019, 06:02 PM
#370
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My 2012 US Cayenne Turbo 39,000 miles 10/11 had the suspected bolts installed and it was not in the recall. My extended Porsche warranty was still in place.
I contacted with Porsche customer service through my dealership and I got a very rude Porsche service representative calling me and telling I am not cover to do this service as a prevention , and if in the future I would have a problem, may be they will take care of me. I asked for this answer in letter but he denied to send me the letter.
So, I went ahead and replace them on my dealership , and ending paying over $2,000.
The checked my history with Porsche , I owned more than 5 Porsche in the last 15 years, and even though they did not want to make the repair under warranty. I will not buy a Porsche again, they do not care about their customers anymore,
I contacted with Porsche customer service through my dealership and I got a very rude Porsche service representative calling me and telling I am not cover to do this service as a prevention , and if in the future I would have a problem, may be they will take care of me. I asked for this answer in letter but he denied to send me the letter.
So, I went ahead and replace them on my dealership , and ending paying over $2,000.
The checked my history with Porsche , I owned more than 5 Porsche in the last 15 years, and even though they did not want to make the repair under warranty. I will not buy a Porsche again, they do not care about their customers anymore,
Here is the top dog (at least in 2018):
Mr. Klaus Zellmer
President and CEO
Porsche Cars North America
One Porsche Drive
Atlanta, GA 30354
A well-written letter, business-like and to the point - explaining exactly what the issue is, how you'd like them to address it, and how this failure to satisfactorily address the issue has caused you some hesitation in buying future Porsche products may get you positive results. The worst they can do is ignore you. The best they can do is try to make you a happy Porsche customer for life. Saying (as you did) "I will not buy a Porsche again" is totally counterproductive - they have no incentive to make you happy, they know they've already lost you. You just told them that. The rant might make you feel better, but it brings you no closer to resolving the issue in a manner satisfactory to you.
You might want to CC the letter to:
Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
1200 New Jersey Ave., S.E.
Washington, D.C., 20590
And reference the recall number from NHTSA for the Variocam campaign.
FWIW - 10/11 is just about the cut off date for the engines with problematic bolts. I suppose it is possible that Porsche had "fixed" the problem with the bolts by then, but hadn't stopped cutting the security pin in the recess. Possible - but without knowing exactly what went on (which they are never going to reveal to an owner) I'd also feel better knowing the bolts had been replaced.
08-03-2019, 07:14 PM
#371
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I've found if you get that sort of treatment from someone in customer relations - it's worth reaching out to the top dog in the organization.
Here is the top dog (at least in 2018):
Mr. Klaus Zellmer
President and CEO
Porsche Cars North America
One Porsche Drive
Atlanta, GA 30354
A well-written letter, business-like and to the point - explaining exactly what the issue is, how you'd like them to address it, and how this failure to satisfactorily address the issue has caused you some hesitation in buying future Porsche products may get you positive results. The worst they can do is ignore you. The best they can do is try to make you a happy Porsche customer for life. Saying (as you did) "I will not buy a Porsche again" is totally counterproductive - they have no incentive to make you happy, they know they've already lost you. You just told them that. The rant might make you feel better, but it brings you no closer to resolving the issue in a manner satisfactory to you.
You might want to CC the letter to:
Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
1200 New Jersey Ave., S.E.
Washington, D.C., 20590
And reference the recall number from NHTSA for the Variocam campaign.
FWIW - 10/11 is just about the cut off date for the engines with problematic bolts. I suppose it is possible that Porsche had "fixed" the problem with the bolts by then, but hadn't stopped cutting the security pin in the recess. Possible - but without knowing exactly what went on (which they are never going to reveal to an owner) I'd also feel better knowing the bolts had been replaced.
Here is the top dog (at least in 2018):
Mr. Klaus Zellmer
President and CEO
Porsche Cars North America
One Porsche Drive
Atlanta, GA 30354
A well-written letter, business-like and to the point - explaining exactly what the issue is, how you'd like them to address it, and how this failure to satisfactorily address the issue has caused you some hesitation in buying future Porsche products may get you positive results. The worst they can do is ignore you. The best they can do is try to make you a happy Porsche customer for life. Saying (as you did) "I will not buy a Porsche again" is totally counterproductive - they have no incentive to make you happy, they know they've already lost you. You just told them that. The rant might make you feel better, but it brings you no closer to resolving the issue in a manner satisfactory to you.
You might want to CC the letter to:
Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
1200 New Jersey Ave., S.E.
Washington, D.C., 20590
And reference the recall number from NHTSA for the Variocam campaign.
FWIW - 10/11 is just about the cut off date for the engines with problematic bolts. I suppose it is possible that Porsche had "fixed" the problem with the bolts by then, but hadn't stopped cutting the security pin in the recess. Possible - but without knowing exactly what went on (which they are never going to reveal to an owner) I'd also feel better knowing the bolts had been replaced.
Thanks for the info
I trade in my car already. Three months after the warranty expires I also had the problem with the coolant pipes and they did not take care too and I have to pay to repaired it. My Porsche dealer tried to call them and explain them the issues, but I think Porsche Customer Service is not there anymore. The variocam bolts issue is a Safety Issue and it can cost a accident in a car that I paid more than 100k , and they do not care about it. So NO PORSCHE anymore! . And I will also tell everybody what happen with my car and I definitely not recommend Porsche vehicles to anybody.
08-03-2019, 08:47 PM
#372
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Thanks for the info
I trade in my car already. Three months after the warranty expires I also had the problem with the coolant pipes and they did not take care too and I have to pay to repaired it. My Porsche dealer tried to call them and explain them the issues, but I think Porsche Customer Service is not there anymore. The variocam bolts issue is a Safety Issue and it can cost a accident in a car that I paid more than 100k , and they do not care about it. So NO PORSCHE anymore! . And I will also tell everybody what happen with my car and I definitely not recommend Porsche vehicles to anybody.
I trade in my car already. Three months after the warranty expires I also had the problem with the coolant pipes and they did not take care too and I have to pay to repaired it. My Porsche dealer tried to call them and explain them the issues, but I think Porsche Customer Service is not there anymore. The variocam bolts issue is a Safety Issue and it can cost a accident in a car that I paid more than 100k , and they do not care about it. So NO PORSCHE anymore! . And I will also tell everybody what happen with my car and I definitely not recommend Porsche vehicles to anybody.
08-15-2019, 04:06 PM
#373
Racer
My 2012 US Cayenne Turbo 39,000 miles 10/11 had the suspected bolts installed and it was not in the recall. My extended Porsche warranty was still in place.
I contacted with Porsche customer service through my dealership and I got a very rude Porsche service representative calling me and telling I am not cover to do this service as a prevention , and if in the future I would have a problem, may be they will take care of me. I asked for this answer in letter but he denied to send me the letter.
So, I went ahead and replace them on my dealership , and ending paying over $2,000.
The checked my history with Porsche , I owned more than 5 Porsche in the last 15 years, and even though they did not want to make the repair under warranty. I will not buy a Porsche again, they do not care about their customers anymore,
I contacted with Porsche customer service through my dealership and I got a very rude Porsche service representative calling me and telling I am not cover to do this service as a prevention , and if in the future I would have a problem, may be they will take care of me. I asked for this answer in letter but he denied to send me the letter.
So, I went ahead and replace them on my dealership , and ending paying over $2,000.
The checked my history with Porsche , I owned more than 5 Porsche in the last 15 years, and even though they did not want to make the repair under warranty. I will not buy a Porsche again, they do not care about their customers anymore,
08-15-2019, 09:14 PM
#374
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None of them are steel. The old bolts were aluminum and the new bolts are aluminum. No steel. The old bolts were not magnetic - meaning that wasn't a steel pin in them, it was part of a swaged security torx recess, that I suspect went a bit too deep into the metal so the shoulder holding the bolt head on was weakened. It appears that the replacements were slightly different in design.
08-15-2019, 10:00 PM
#375
Racer
None of them are steel. The old bolts were aluminum and the new bolts are aluminum. No steel. The old bolts were not magnetic - meaning that wasn't a steel pin in them, it was part of a swaged security torx recess, that I suspect went a bit too deep into the metal so the shoulder holding the bolt head on was weakened. It appears that the replacements were slightly different in design.