CAYENNE RECALL - Bad Variocam Bolts
02-03-2018, 04:42 PM
#286
3rd Gear
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BAD START, HAPPY ENDING
My wife and I were driving from western NC to Florida through Georgia on January 10 in her 2011 Cayenne S with 58K miles. The Check Engine came on, and I started for a nearby exit. The engine began losing power and misfiring, so I parked it in a gas station and went online to this forum and OH CRAP! First I had heard of the variocam bolt problem. Closest dealer was Atlanta, an hour and a half behind us, and it was Sunday. Got AAA to pick us up with a flatbed and back to Atlanta, dropping the CS and us at a motel for the night. First thing next morning had the CS flatbedded again, this time to Porsche Atlanta Perimeter, where we had had some minor repairs on our prior 2006 CS. My service advisor, Tony, told me they were familiar with the problem and it should be covered under the recall, just recently initiated. They pulled the valve covers that afternoon, while we were on our way back to Florida in a rental, and confirmed it was the Bank 2 intake camshaft adjuster which had come apart, stopping drive for the camshaft. The camshaft adjuster bolts were sheared off. They confirmed this was covered and ordered the parts (over $10K) the next day, after pulling the engine. The Bank 2 head had to be replaced entirely, and they pulled and completely cleaned and rebuilt the Bank 1 head as well. They found all the metal parts in close proximity to the failure. They fixed some other problems; coil packs, thermostat housing and hoses and leaking power steering pump, basically for the cost of parts, since they were part of the reassembly. It took two weeks, but the entire time Tony was keeping us advised of the repair progress and estimated time of completion. I was able to stop off in Atlanta on my way back from a business trip in Philly, pick up the CS and drive it back to Florida with no problems, probably better than before the engine failure. I cannot say enough about the courtesy, compassion and thoughtfulness of the service staff at this dealership. The shop manager walked me through the entire repair when I picked the car up, and confirmed that I now had the new design cam adjusters, and the car had been road tested and cleared for return, including a front end alignment. My wife really loves her CS, and now I feel no hesitation to driving it wherever the road leads us. Even though we were technically out of warranty, there was no hesitation on coverage. Hats off to Porsche Atlanta Perimeter, and to PCNA for finally getting its act together on this issue. This is our fourth Porsche (I drive a Cayman S), we are aware that maintenance is expensive, but the pleasure we get from these cars is worth every penny.
Ross in Sarasota, FL
2011 Cayenne S
2006 Cayman S
2007 Audi A4 Avant
2001 Acura MDX
2006 Cayenne S-sold
1974 911 Targa-sold
My wife and I were driving from western NC to Florida through Georgia on January 10 in her 2011 Cayenne S with 58K miles. The Check Engine came on, and I started for a nearby exit. The engine began losing power and misfiring, so I parked it in a gas station and went online to this forum and OH CRAP! First I had heard of the variocam bolt problem. Closest dealer was Atlanta, an hour and a half behind us, and it was Sunday. Got AAA to pick us up with a flatbed and back to Atlanta, dropping the CS and us at a motel for the night. First thing next morning had the CS flatbedded again, this time to Porsche Atlanta Perimeter, where we had had some minor repairs on our prior 2006 CS. My service advisor, Tony, told me they were familiar with the problem and it should be covered under the recall, just recently initiated. They pulled the valve covers that afternoon, while we were on our way back to Florida in a rental, and confirmed it was the Bank 2 intake camshaft adjuster which had come apart, stopping drive for the camshaft. The camshaft adjuster bolts were sheared off. They confirmed this was covered and ordered the parts (over $10K) the next day, after pulling the engine. The Bank 2 head had to be replaced entirely, and they pulled and completely cleaned and rebuilt the Bank 1 head as well. They found all the metal parts in close proximity to the failure. They fixed some other problems; coil packs, thermostat housing and hoses and leaking power steering pump, basically for the cost of parts, since they were part of the reassembly. It took two weeks, but the entire time Tony was keeping us advised of the repair progress and estimated time of completion. I was able to stop off in Atlanta on my way back from a business trip in Philly, pick up the CS and drive it back to Florida with no problems, probably better than before the engine failure. I cannot say enough about the courtesy, compassion and thoughtfulness of the service staff at this dealership. The shop manager walked me through the entire repair when I picked the car up, and confirmed that I now had the new design cam adjusters, and the car had been road tested and cleared for return, including a front end alignment. My wife really loves her CS, and now I feel no hesitation to driving it wherever the road leads us. Even though we were technically out of warranty, there was no hesitation on coverage. Hats off to Porsche Atlanta Perimeter, and to PCNA for finally getting its act together on this issue. This is our fourth Porsche (I drive a Cayman S), we are aware that maintenance is expensive, but the pleasure we get from these cars is worth every penny.
Ross in Sarasota, FL
2011 Cayenne S
2006 Cayman S
2007 Audi A4 Avant
2001 Acura MDX
2006 Cayenne S-sold
1974 911 Targa-sold
02-03-2018, 07:12 PM
#287
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Great that you had such a good experience Targa1974. Not that it really matters, but trust me when I tell you that without the NHTSA and the members of Rennlist/6speed, Porsche would definitely NOT be picking up the cost of your camshaft repairs. Completely agree that driving these cars is a terrific experience.
02-04-2018, 02:28 PM
#289
Part of the AH08 repair is checking the warranty history of the vehicle to see if the cam adjusters have been replaced and if they have to make sure they were manufactured later than a certain date. If your car was repaired under warranty and it was after the specified date (i cant remember off the top of my head) something sounds fishy. I wouldn't put it past a shady dealer take the AH08 parts and throw them in the trash and then charge Porsche for the repair.
02-06-2018, 08:54 PM
#290
Instructor
Perhaps I spoke too soon about all being well with my Cayenne. Check engine light this morning, comes on a few blocks from home after starting and letting warm for a couple minutes in the driveway.
P1362 Code. Most accurate hit on Google seems to come up as "Valve Lift Control Cylinder 4 - Large Stroke" (from an AllData diagnosis sheet found online for a 2011 Cayenne Turbo)
"Probable Causes: 1. Bar Ignition Module Faulty 2. Compression Too Low 3. Injection Valve Faulty or Borderline (Opens Too Late, Not Long Enough, Not Enough or Leaks) 4. Valve Lifter Faulty (Intake Valve Has Not Switched to the Other Lift or Has Not Switched Quickly Enough)"
If I'm correct, cylinder 4 should be the rearmost on the passenger (RH) side, so potentially unrelated in my case if they didn't have the head off that side, but an odd code to pop up.
P1362 Code. Most accurate hit on Google seems to come up as "Valve Lift Control Cylinder 4 - Large Stroke" (from an AllData diagnosis sheet found online for a 2011 Cayenne Turbo)
"Probable Causes: 1. Bar Ignition Module Faulty 2. Compression Too Low 3. Injection Valve Faulty or Borderline (Opens Too Late, Not Long Enough, Not Enough or Leaks) 4. Valve Lifter Faulty (Intake Valve Has Not Switched to the Other Lift or Has Not Switched Quickly Enough)"
If I'm correct, cylinder 4 should be the rearmost on the passenger (RH) side, so potentially unrelated in my case if they didn't have the head off that side, but an odd code to pop up.
02-15-2018, 12:30 PM
#291
Dealers do not have adjusters on hand.
Took my CTT to the dealer on 12 Feb for the recall. My SA called the next day to say they needed to order parts. When I asked why, he said he thought a couple of the screws were stripped so they would order new camshaft adjusters. I asked why they had no adjusters on hand if they are performing a recall and he said Porsche isn’t sending out adjusters, the dealer must request them and provide the VIN. I asked for clarification on whether any screw heads had sheared and whether they were looking for pieces in the engine, and I asked for the ETA on the parts.
On 13 Feb my SA called to say he spoke with the tech and was told that no screws had sheared and they are not looking for any missing pieces. He said the tech told him he wanted to replace the adjusters to “do it the right way.” Knowing that Service Advisors are pretty ignorant of cars and car repairs, I explained that Porsche was attempting to reduce the costs of this recall by replacing only the fastening screws, that replacing the adjusters represented quite a cost increase and then questioned whether their technician could authorize this increased scope/cost based upon his gut feeling.
The SA said this particular tech is very serious about his job, might be willing to say whatever is necessary to perform the repair to his personal high standard and that nobody would question his judgement. I asked whether his dealership is replacing the adjusters on every recall vehicle and he said no, but that mine was one of two in the shop at the moment getting new adjusters. I then explained the faulty fastening screws are thought to be installed with adhesive and asked whether the tech stripped the screw head or sheared it off during attempted removal, as that would seem to account for the odd circumstances here. He paused then stated that is not what his tech told him, and that he didn’t know about the adhesive and potential for stripped/sheared screws.
He couldn’t provide me with any further information on why my truck is going beyond Scope 1, but I suspect it is because of a stripped/sheared screw during attempted removal. I will ask to speak to the Service Manager and/or tech when I receive the truck to try to get a straight answer.
As of 15 Feb I still have no firm ETA on the parts. Yesterday my SA said his parts guy thought it might be today or tomorrow but this same dealership had my truck for 10 weeks last summer awaiting a transfer case, so I am not holding my breath. They did loan me a new Boxster S to drive around and despite the crappy weather I am actually sort of enjoying this fast little thing.
TL;DR: Your Cayenne might need new adjusters; expect a delay if it does.
On 13 Feb my SA called to say he spoke with the tech and was told that no screws had sheared and they are not looking for any missing pieces. He said the tech told him he wanted to replace the adjusters to “do it the right way.” Knowing that Service Advisors are pretty ignorant of cars and car repairs, I explained that Porsche was attempting to reduce the costs of this recall by replacing only the fastening screws, that replacing the adjusters represented quite a cost increase and then questioned whether their technician could authorize this increased scope/cost based upon his gut feeling.
The SA said this particular tech is very serious about his job, might be willing to say whatever is necessary to perform the repair to his personal high standard and that nobody would question his judgement. I asked whether his dealership is replacing the adjusters on every recall vehicle and he said no, but that mine was one of two in the shop at the moment getting new adjusters. I then explained the faulty fastening screws are thought to be installed with adhesive and asked whether the tech stripped the screw head or sheared it off during attempted removal, as that would seem to account for the odd circumstances here. He paused then stated that is not what his tech told him, and that he didn’t know about the adhesive and potential for stripped/sheared screws.
He couldn’t provide me with any further information on why my truck is going beyond Scope 1, but I suspect it is because of a stripped/sheared screw during attempted removal. I will ask to speak to the Service Manager and/or tech when I receive the truck to try to get a straight answer.
As of 15 Feb I still have no firm ETA on the parts. Yesterday my SA said his parts guy thought it might be today or tomorrow but this same dealership had my truck for 10 weeks last summer awaiting a transfer case, so I am not holding my breath. They did loan me a new Boxster S to drive around and despite the crappy weather I am actually sort of enjoying this fast little thing.
TL;DR: Your Cayenne might need new adjusters; expect a delay if it does.
02-15-2018, 02:27 PM
#292
After reading the post above, I'm starting to think that guys like me (and others) that had their engines grenade are in better shape, as we get all new heads, cams, adjusters, lifters, timing chains etc etc.
02-15-2018, 02:31 PM
#293
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks MountainStone. Really interesting. I bet that you are correct and the Tech had an issue taking out the old bolts. My Truck (Cayenne S) is currently at the dealer for the recall. They gave me a 2018 Cayenne base model. Its amazing how little change in the Cayenne there has been since 2011. its a testament to how well the trucks were designed. The 2018 base model Turbo-4 is slower than my S but the pickup is good enough, it just doesn't fly like the S does.
02-16-2018, 09:37 AM
#294
Took my CTT to the dealer on 12 Feb for the recall. My SA called the next day to say they needed to order parts. When I asked why, he said he thought a couple of the screws were stripped so they would order new camshaft adjusters. I asked why they had no adjusters on hand if they are performing a recall and he said Porsche isn’t sending out adjusters, the dealer must request them and provide the VIN. I asked for clarification on whether any screw heads had sheared and whether they were looking for pieces in the engine, and I asked for the ETA on the parts.
On 13 Feb my SA called to say he spoke with the tech and was told that no screws had sheared and they are not looking for any missing pieces. He said the tech told him he wanted to replace the adjusters to “do it the right way.” Knowing that Service Advisors are pretty ignorant of cars and car repairs, I explained that Porsche was attempting to reduce the costs of this recall by replacing only the fastening screws, that replacing the adjusters represented quite a cost increase and then questioned whether their technician could authorize this increased scope/cost based upon his gut feeling.
The SA said this particular tech is very serious about his job, might be willing to say whatever is necessary to perform the repair to his personal high standard and that nobody would question his judgement. I asked whether his dealership is replacing the adjusters on every recall vehicle and he said no, but that mine was one of two in the shop at the moment getting new adjusters. I then explained the faulty fastening screws are thought to be installed with adhesive and asked whether the tech stripped the screw head or sheared it off during attempted removal, as that would seem to account for the odd circumstances here. He paused then stated that is not what his tech told him, and that he didn’t know about the adhesive and potential for stripped/sheared screws.
He couldn’t provide me with any further information on why my truck is going beyond Scope 1, but I suspect it is because of a stripped/sheared screw during attempted removal. I will ask to speak to the Service Manager and/or tech when I receive the truck to try to get a straight answer.
As of 15 Feb I still have no firm ETA on the parts. Yesterday my SA said his parts guy thought it might be today or tomorrow but this same dealership had my truck for 10 weeks last summer awaiting a transfer case, so I am not holding my breath. They did loan me a new Boxster S to drive around and despite the crappy weather I am actually sort of enjoying this fast little thing.
TL;DR: Your Cayenne might need new adjusters; expect a delay if it does.
On 13 Feb my SA called to say he spoke with the tech and was told that no screws had sheared and they are not looking for any missing pieces. He said the tech told him he wanted to replace the adjusters to “do it the right way.” Knowing that Service Advisors are pretty ignorant of cars and car repairs, I explained that Porsche was attempting to reduce the costs of this recall by replacing only the fastening screws, that replacing the adjusters represented quite a cost increase and then questioned whether their technician could authorize this increased scope/cost based upon his gut feeling.
The SA said this particular tech is very serious about his job, might be willing to say whatever is necessary to perform the repair to his personal high standard and that nobody would question his judgement. I asked whether his dealership is replacing the adjusters on every recall vehicle and he said no, but that mine was one of two in the shop at the moment getting new adjusters. I then explained the faulty fastening screws are thought to be installed with adhesive and asked whether the tech stripped the screw head or sheared it off during attempted removal, as that would seem to account for the odd circumstances here. He paused then stated that is not what his tech told him, and that he didn’t know about the adhesive and potential for stripped/sheared screws.
He couldn’t provide me with any further information on why my truck is going beyond Scope 1, but I suspect it is because of a stripped/sheared screw during attempted removal. I will ask to speak to the Service Manager and/or tech when I receive the truck to try to get a straight answer.
As of 15 Feb I still have no firm ETA on the parts. Yesterday my SA said his parts guy thought it might be today or tomorrow but this same dealership had my truck for 10 weeks last summer awaiting a transfer case, so I am not holding my breath. They did loan me a new Boxster S to drive around and despite the crappy weather I am actually sort of enjoying this fast little thing.
TL;DR: Your Cayenne might need new adjusters; expect a delay if it does.
So no they are not replacing the complete adjuster on every car. It is a case by case basis. I highly doubt the screw was stripped or sheared. I dont think you guys understand how little tension is holding these adjusters together. Were talking between 8 and 10 nm of torque here. And even if a screw stripped or sheared theres so little tension you can back them out very,very easily. Even on failed adjusters the threaded portion of the screws can be backed out by hand. There has never been any kind of adhesive installed on the adjuster screws that I know of going back to the very first version.
TL
R: Your dealer is doing the correct thing and actually doing you a favor so quit thinking they're doing something fishy and let them get it handled without bugging them.
02-16-2018, 03:06 PM
#295
BTW: Thank you for the valuable information provided here. I don't wish to be perceived as a jerk; my irritation and suspicion is a valid response to the obfuscation and dissembling by this service advisor.
02-16-2018, 03:21 PM
#296
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spring Lake, NJ, US of A
Posts: 10,085
Received 1,160 Likes
on
767 Posts
Ask to speak to the service manager - he'd have to approve the replacement request. Service advisers are really service-salespeople. They are good at getting owners to pay for service. They typically do not have a mechanical background - so their translation of what the actual technician told them is always questionable. The service manager generally was a technician at one time - so he understands what techs tell him.
02-16-2018, 05:44 PM
#297
Drifting
So mine is finally done as well. Got it back yesterday from the AH08, oil/filter change, PTV+ rear diff fluid change, and intermittent coolant leak repair.
I won’t post my parts list for the AH08 work because it’s exacly the same as that pictured above. No drama. Finally fixed and glad to have this issue behind me.
I won’t post my parts list for the AH08 work because it’s exacly the same as that pictured above. No drama. Finally fixed and glad to have this issue behind me.
02-16-2018, 08:45 PM
#298
Because I cannot get a straight answer. If the reason the tech is going beyond scope 1 is as simple as a loose screw or failure to achieve required tension of the new screws, just say that. Being evasive arouses suspicion. I changed my spark plugs last week and discovered the previous Porsche tech installed the wrong plugs, so I have reason not to blindly trust Porsche techs. Refusing to give a simple answer means the answer probably isn't simple. If you don't want to seem fishy or be bugged by your customers, just provide truthful answers when asked a question. I doubt anyone finds this concept unreasonable or onerous. Are there valid reasons for not being honest in this situation?
BTW: Thank you for the valuable information provided here. I don't wish to be perceived as a jerk; my irritation and suspicion is a valid response to the obfuscation and dissembling by this service advisor.
BTW: Thank you for the valuable information provided here. I don't wish to be perceived as a jerk; my irritation and suspicion is a valid response to the obfuscation and dissembling by this service advisor.
No problem for sharing, I can see why you could be suspicious.
02-16-2018, 08:48 PM
#299
Not true. The decision on what repair scope to be completed is 100% the at discretion of the technician. Truthfully the service manager has no idea about the day to day operations of a dealership. If you call and ask about this situation he's going to call you back but only AFTER he goes to the shop foreman or technician to get the real scoop.
02-17-2018, 01:14 AM
#300
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spring Lake, NJ, US of A
Posts: 10,085
Received 1,160 Likes
on
767 Posts
Not true. The decision on what repair scope to be completed is 100% the at discretion of the technician. Truthfully the service manager has no idea about the day to day operations of a dealership. If you call and ask about this situation he's going to call you back but only AFTER he goes to the shop foreman or technician to get the real scoop.