alexaqui,

Re: environmentally damaging processes

Agree 100%. These batteries have to be charged by something and...they are built with elements today, like lithium, which is easier to dig out of the earth than recycle. The argument is that we are infants when it comes to battery technology. Do you think we will be past these issues in a few years?

I'm looking forward to having a 911 with a sterling engine that runs on CO2. OK...maybe the 0- 60 will be 10 hrs

 

Yes but do you see the Macan diesels or Panamera diesels on the streets over here? Nope..Nadda! They brought the GTS models and Panamera Hybrids here before the diesels but that was before this emissions issue Don't see them rushing to bring them now. Electric plug ins and hybrids are more likely borrowing tech from the 918 possibly. Otherwise there's not enough demand for either vehicles as diesel models. Most Porsche sales/managers I've spoken to agree that the Cayenne diesel does makes sense given weight/size/performance advantages here in the US especially but demand is down by customers now and buyers are wary. If one looks at what has happened to VW and Audi (yes you can't get the cars but then again they are saying folks aren't running in asking for them) many intended buyers are cross shopping into other brands or other gas powered models. They just aren't storming the gates demanding diesels, never were, unlike Europe and now the questions on fixes, reliability, Urea use, emissions, registrations has given many pause. No matter what ones circumstance the financial outlay of $70k plus for an average Cayenne/SUV is still a significant outlay and while no one buys a vehicle new without knowledge or depreciation no one wants to watch it all disappear frivolously due to no fault of their own. Since no one knows what will happen or how much or how long value will be affected or even performance after the fix; the speculation of the unknown is hurting the model and brand as many have already alluded to. Don't disagree none of us know what will occur really but then again we all agree that the longer the issue goes on without any info or resolution the worse it could possibly be for the CD's and the brand as well as the other VW and Audi vehicles.

So given that I don't see the Macan diesel or Panamera getting here anytime soon. They may be approved for the EU but doubt Porsche will be hell bent to get them ready to go and over here anytime soon if at all, especially since there are some whispers that the Cayenne Diesel won't return either here also given the possible overall costs of the VW scandal to the group as a whole.

 

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar172509.html
That has put Porsche Cars North America in a precarious position. The company had high hopes for the Macan Diesel as a lower-cost alternative to its Cayenne counterpart. But with the scandal still in the minds of a lot of people, there’s been some uncertainty within Porsche on when the crossover will be offered in the U.S. market. Speaking with Automotive News, Porsche Cars NA CEO Klaus Zellmer indicated that the company still has plans of bringing the Macan Diesel to the U.S. market. That’s still set in stone.

 

I have to wonder if their delay in getting the MD to the US - it was talked about all the way back to the introduction, that it would be shortly released in the US - is because Porsche leadership knew this emissions thing was bubbling up and would soon explode?

 

that is probably why people aren't demanding them. They were in hot demand before the scandal.

 

I had always heard the delay was because they are selling all the S and Turbos they can and they were going to wait til demand slowed to bring the base and diesel over. Why sell a cheaper car if you can sell all the expensive ones you can produce.

 

Don't think they knew...that would be just crazy and if ever found out they did I don't know how they could justify that one to the customer base for VW.

Yes I recall 1 yr waiting lists for the S and Turbo. When I asked my dealer back in July/Aug he hinted that the GTS was next and the diesel was waaay off in part because they were selling all the non diesel models they could and all the diesels were diverted to Europe production and also with the CD avail didn't see the need to compete with the Q5 TDI market at this point. Alluded to the fact that a diesel model would be 2017-2018+ for the US likely when they did the mid model year refresh which made sense. With this VW scandal I can see it pushed farther to the right now than to the left and forward.
Makes sense...agree. Now especially what is the cost savings/profit of pushing the Macan diesel here unless they have an engine and option that is immediately complaint and maybe can pickup the slack while they fix the CD issues and thus also generate revenue.

 

VW chief knew about diesel cheat back in 2014

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/18/v...ndence-report/

 

Here is another conspiracy theory for you. Did this issue and them possibly expecting it to finally blow up play a role in the TDI not getting an update for the 958.2? It seemed at the time that anyone that paid attention to the diesel was at a loss to explain why it's numbers all stayed the same when every other motor option got tweaked (including the base and TT which kept their old motors).

Maybe they didn't want to invest in something they feared they might not be able to sell? Maybe they feared putting it up for review again in case the EPA might finally get wise?

 

gnat,
I think the Porsche folks didn't want to spend the money on an engine they were getting without much cost to them. I think it is pretty good as is pending the re-flash.

Rob

 

Yeah but the diesel with uprated power figures was already developed and has been going into Audis. So it shouldn't have been a big stretch to put it into the Cayenne. Since after all it is a "parts bin" engine that is already being produced. This would give me credence to the idea that Porsche smelled this fiasco coming and was hedging to pull diesel from the US market. Otherwise, it would have made a lot of sense to offer the 958.2 with the more powerful version. Additionally, if this scandal wasnt brewing they could have put the updated engine in the cayenne and the older one in the macan to help differentiate them power wise a little bit.

 

Got this off of Bimmerfest. A law suit filed against Mercedes claims that the AdBlue (SCR sys) turns off or "favors performance over emissions" below 50 deg F. Just reporting, not supporting. Since MB developed and is licensing its use to other manufacturers I wouldn't be surprised if we see a bunch more of these....

Whether the claim is true or not is almost secondary to the impact on diesels in general IMO.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/18/m...sions-lawsuit/

 

A witch burn her!

 

Heh. Somewhere in the last 40 pages I believe I said VW wouldn't be alone in the fallout from this mess. Took longer than I expected to start seeing others get hit.

I think at this point even if someone can come out with their nose clean (BMW?) they are still going to lose overall as I still think this is going to have a long lasting impact on diesel sales in the US.

So Europe must be lousy with health and respiratory problems then. Oh. Wait. Even though they use more diesel cars and don't have as strict regs, they have a smaller occurrence of lung disease than the US...

 

Didn't the magazine tests in Europe after this news broke show that pretty much every brand broke the rules to a large extent? If I recall, BMWs rated the least offensive in one of the test I saw. Mercedes was right up there with VW. I find this funny as most people I know dislike the BMW diesels relative to their other German competitors. Maybe their issues, particularly in cold weather, are a part of their engines being in better compliance?