Diesel Cayenne and VW emission issue
09-30-2018, 12:48 AM
#5896
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I was at the dealer today to schedule a service appt as a couple codes were thrown relating to my fuel pump. They asked if I had done my diesel fix yet and I replied "no, I'm waiting to get it done later or not at all based on what I'm hearing."
Both service reps immediately went into saying how I won't be able to renew my registration in NJ and that I have to get my fix done by year end in order to get my payment. Both statements are false and I wasn't going to sit there and argue with them as I had my son with me. So, are dealerships under pressure to get all these diesel cars fixed?
it sure seemed like they are after my encounter today.
Both service reps immediately went into saying how I won't be able to renew my registration in NJ and that I have to get my fix done by year end in order to get my payment. Both statements are false and I wasn't going to sit there and argue with them as I had my son with me. So, are dealerships under pressure to get all these diesel cars fixed?
it sure seemed like they are after my encounter today.
VAG has a goal (80% IIRC) that the have to meet by a certain date, or they face penalties.
10-01-2018, 03:21 PM
#5897
FWIW I had the EGR replaced on my '13 CD last week, which was accompanied by a significant carbon cleaning. I have not noticed the 'lag' since the repair was made; the car drives much better than it had prior to the work. I have done a couple of quick trips, and towed about 200 miles, and not seen any trace of the lag. I'll continue to monitor, and post if I have any changes, but I feel pretty good.
Car had 137,500 miles when it went in for the EGR replacement. I had been waiting since maybe June to have it replaced, but there was a delay due to waiting for a new cooler to accompany the redesigned GR valve. Upon some pressure from my end, PCNA allowed the cooler from the 15-16 CDs to be used so my repair could be made. I was told, initially, that I had to wait for an updated cooler for the 13-14s; I do not know what is different between the updated part for the older cars, and the cooler for the newer ones, but that's what I was told.
I can visualize why a badly clogged intake manifold could contribute to the 'lag' feeling, especially at part throttle. That's a lot of air flow blockage that the ECU might have trouble overcoming by letting the turbo build more boost.
Hoffman Porsche in East Hartford did the work.
Car had 137,500 miles when it went in for the EGR replacement. I had been waiting since maybe June to have it replaced, but there was a delay due to waiting for a new cooler to accompany the redesigned GR valve. Upon some pressure from my end, PCNA allowed the cooler from the 15-16 CDs to be used so my repair could be made. I was told, initially, that I had to wait for an updated cooler for the 13-14s; I do not know what is different between the updated part for the older cars, and the cooler for the newer ones, but that's what I was told.
I can visualize why a badly clogged intake manifold could contribute to the 'lag' feeling, especially at part throttle. That's a lot of air flow blockage that the ECU might have trouble overcoming by letting the turbo build more boost.
Hoffman Porsche in East Hartford did the work.
10-02-2018, 08:37 PM
#5898
I wanted to report on my DEF consumption in my 2015 fixed CD. After 4600 local miles the car took 2 gallons of DEF. This is a bit less than before the fix where the car always took 2.5 gallons.
10-05-2018, 09:55 PM
#5899
I just got my '14 CD back from service. I started the visit earlier in the week with "I know you probably can't do anything about this, but I want the complaint on record" and then proceeded to describe the hesitation to the SA in the same general terms as others. The chief tech happened to walk in while we were discussing it, so I brought him into the discussion. He volunteered that they had replaced egr's on a few, even using '15 parts on a '13 because the parts are NLA. He volunteered to check my EGR.
They did not replace my EGR, as there were no codes, but they did find significant carbon buildup in the throttle bodies, so they replaced both of those along with the mass flow meter. It seems better, with close to instant throttle response as opposed to the 1.5 seconds of no response, although there is still the issue of the transmission being in the wrong gear.
Outdoor temperatures were below 70 when I picked it up, so I need to drive it in 80 dog or above to be sure it's better.
Don
They did not replace my EGR, as there were no codes, but they did find significant carbon buildup in the throttle bodies, so they replaced both of those along with the mass flow meter. It seems better, with close to instant throttle response as opposed to the 1.5 seconds of no response, although there is still the issue of the transmission being in the wrong gear.
Outdoor temperatures were below 70 when I picked it up, so I need to drive it in 80 dog or above to be sure it's better.
Don
10-06-2018, 02:08 AM
#5900
Rennlist Member
How many miles on your '14?
My '15 has about 33K, so I don't think that's enough for carbon buildup to be my problem. Especially since it didn't have the fix until just December.
My '15 has about 33K, so I don't think that's enough for carbon buildup to be my problem. Especially since it didn't have the fix until just December.
10-07-2018, 06:03 AM
#5902
Clearly the mileage has a big effect on carbon sludge build up, but shorter runs or City driving will cause an early onslaught to this problem.
On my previous responses I've mentioned how important it is to install a ancillary coalescing filter. In my case I like Mann's ProVent 200.
I have used these on my previous Diesels with great success, they also work exceptionally well on GDi engines which have similar issues to modern Diesels.
Even though the built in Factory coalescing filter/Valve, was modified in our Gen two engines, it will still not handle the by pass crank case pressures that can be forced up into these devices long term, without some type of malfunctioning that allows more oil droplets into the induction air.
This will also contaminate the two Intercoolers and hoses.
There are other types and brands of CC Filters out there, but I like this German design for its relative compact size and 2 built in pressure relief valves.
On my previous responses I've mentioned how important it is to install a ancillary coalescing filter. In my case I like Mann's ProVent 200.
I have used these on my previous Diesels with great success, they also work exceptionally well on GDi engines which have similar issues to modern Diesels.
Even though the built in Factory coalescing filter/Valve, was modified in our Gen two engines, it will still not handle the by pass crank case pressures that can be forced up into these devices long term, without some type of malfunctioning that allows more oil droplets into the induction air.
This will also contaminate the two Intercoolers and hoses.
There are other types and brands of CC Filters out there, but I like this German design for its relative compact size and 2 built in pressure relief valves.
Last edited by Rupert16; 10-11-2018 at 02:03 AM.
10-16-2018, 05:06 PM
#5903
So the last oil change (last week Wednesday), I complained again about the throttle delays.
They spent 2 days with it, had 3 different techs look at it. Again they confirmed they see what I'm talking about, understand why I'd complain, agree it sucks, but ultimately, concluded "this is normal behavior for post-fixed diesels." They said they've had a LOT of complaints lately about that same issue from other customers.
I didn't expect them to really find anything (tho I did tell them about the post or two here that referenced EGR failures) but at least it's documented again. Plus they put me in a brand new Panamera 4 for those two days.... which I *loved*. Man if I didn't need to tow, I'd be driving a new Pana instead. The 2019 Cayennes have the same interior, which is tempting.....
So they had the CD Weds/Thurs. Picked it up Thurs night. On my way home from work Friday evening, I got a CEL. I pulled it with the Durametric, said something about "low adBlue flow." The following morning (Saturday), I opted to just drive to the dealer to schedule the appointment. (It was sunny and clear, and they have free coffee... so why not?) On the way there - I get "AdBlue Fault - Vehicle will not restart in 200 miles."
So rather than just scheduling an appointment... I left the CD back at the dealer. They gave me another Panamera (this time an e-Hybrid). Told me "Looks like the adBlue heater went out, we'll have it for you Monday afternoon no problem. We see these failing a lot, we have them in stock."
Well it's Tuesday afternoon, service manager just called.... asked my permission to let the tech put 50 miles on it, they'll have it until at least Friday. Current suspicion is a failed/failing DME.
I leave for vacation on Thursday so I'll have to shuffle the loaner Pana back to them tomorrow night, and just leave the CD with them while I'm gone.
Will update here if it turns out the DME failed and I get any kind of performance improvement.
They spent 2 days with it, had 3 different techs look at it. Again they confirmed they see what I'm talking about, understand why I'd complain, agree it sucks, but ultimately, concluded "this is normal behavior for post-fixed diesels." They said they've had a LOT of complaints lately about that same issue from other customers.
I didn't expect them to really find anything (tho I did tell them about the post or two here that referenced EGR failures) but at least it's documented again. Plus they put me in a brand new Panamera 4 for those two days.... which I *loved*. Man if I didn't need to tow, I'd be driving a new Pana instead. The 2019 Cayennes have the same interior, which is tempting.....
So they had the CD Weds/Thurs. Picked it up Thurs night. On my way home from work Friday evening, I got a CEL. I pulled it with the Durametric, said something about "low adBlue flow." The following morning (Saturday), I opted to just drive to the dealer to schedule the appointment. (It was sunny and clear, and they have free coffee... so why not?) On the way there - I get "AdBlue Fault - Vehicle will not restart in 200 miles."
So rather than just scheduling an appointment... I left the CD back at the dealer. They gave me another Panamera (this time an e-Hybrid). Told me "Looks like the adBlue heater went out, we'll have it for you Monday afternoon no problem. We see these failing a lot, we have them in stock."
Well it's Tuesday afternoon, service manager just called.... asked my permission to let the tech put 50 miles on it, they'll have it until at least Friday. Current suspicion is a failed/failing DME.
I leave for vacation on Thursday so I'll have to shuffle the loaner Pana back to them tomorrow night, and just leave the CD with them while I'm gone.
Will update here if it turns out the DME failed and I get any kind of performance improvement.
10-16-2018, 05:11 PM
#5904
HAcked 987,
That is how my AdBlue heater went out too. Luckily it was after completing the evacuation to GA for Hurricane Irma. My dealer keeps them in stock.....A few months later I lost power on highway with CEL: they replaced the DPF which had to come from Germany.
Rob
That is how my AdBlue heater went out too. Luckily it was after completing the evacuation to GA for Hurricane Irma. My dealer keeps them in stock.....A few months later I lost power on highway with CEL: they replaced the DPF which had to come from Germany.
Rob
10-16-2018, 05:22 PM
#5905
In my case it doesn't sound like it's the heater though.
My fingers are crossed it's some kind of failure whose fix also fixes the performance issues.
10-16-2018, 06:55 PM
#5906
Rennlist Member
Ya I'm glad it failed when it did and not when I was on vacation or halfway to work or something. I put 120+ miles a day on my CD commuting. That "No restart in 200 miles" could have pretty easily hit me at a time that would have left me stranded.
In my case it doesn't sound like it's the heater though.
My fingers are crossed it's some kind of failure whose fix also fixes the performance issues.
In my case it doesn't sound like it's the heater though.
My fingers are crossed it's some kind of failure whose fix also fixes the performance issues.
10-17-2018, 10:08 AM
#5908
Rennlist Member
Ever since the dealer replaced the EGT's and cats on my wifes CD, it's been running great. I drove it ~150 miles last Sunday, no issues with throttle lag anymore...
10-17-2018, 11:51 AM
#5909
Well.... THAT was interesting. I normally like my dealer, a lot. Sales and Service have both been excellent. But I suspect the service manager is trying to pull one over.
They replaced zero parts. It just started working. They said, "Someone must've run it low on AdBlue at some point in the past." I reminded them that ~100 miles and 36 hours ago they put 2 gallons in according to the receipt from the oil change service they did. The service manager said, "Yeah it must've happened when the car was still a service loaner. It was a stored code not a current code."
I.... am just not going to argue. I've often found that arguing with the dealer when things get technical rarely ever end well.
They pulled the pump, it worked fine on the bench.
They pulled the heater, it worked fine on the bench.
Put it all back in the car, and it didn't work.
They called Porsche TechLine, were told to force a regen via the PIWIS and it didn't work. So TechLine told them, "Take it for a 50 mile drive, that will force a regen. If it still doesn't regen, the DME is bad."
Suddenly, "it just started working."
MY theory? The technician bumped, knocked, or pinched something related to the AdBlue system when he was doing the oil change and/or investigating my complaint about the hesitation. They stared at it for 3 days, couldn't figure it out, neither could TechLine... and when they were about to do the "50 mile drive" the tech found the culprit... and plugged the connector back in or whatever small thing it was... and everything was fine.
There's a reason I consider the term "Factory Trained Technician" to be a 4-letter-word.
They replaced zero parts. It just started working. They said, "Someone must've run it low on AdBlue at some point in the past." I reminded them that ~100 miles and 36 hours ago they put 2 gallons in according to the receipt from the oil change service they did. The service manager said, "Yeah it must've happened when the car was still a service loaner. It was a stored code not a current code."
I.... am just not going to argue. I've often found that arguing with the dealer when things get technical rarely ever end well.
They pulled the pump, it worked fine on the bench.
They pulled the heater, it worked fine on the bench.
Put it all back in the car, and it didn't work.
They called Porsche TechLine, were told to force a regen via the PIWIS and it didn't work. So TechLine told them, "Take it for a 50 mile drive, that will force a regen. If it still doesn't regen, the DME is bad."
Suddenly, "it just started working."
MY theory? The technician bumped, knocked, or pinched something related to the AdBlue system when he was doing the oil change and/or investigating my complaint about the hesitation. They stared at it for 3 days, couldn't figure it out, neither could TechLine... and when they were about to do the "50 mile drive" the tech found the culprit... and plugged the connector back in or whatever small thing it was... and everything was fine.
There's a reason I consider the term "Factory Trained Technician" to be a 4-letter-word.
10-17-2018, 03:58 PM
#5910
I've put some more miles, towing and non-towing, on the CD since the EGR cleaning, and there is no lag. It still has the shifting changes present, but not the lag. If anyone knows how to force a CEL for the EGR, you can probably get it replaced and the carbon cleaning done without too much of a fight 