SignDoc

I am thinking you don't like the buyback amount they are offering? I just emailed to see if there is a back end opt out because you don't like the approved fix.

Needsdecaf

Don't think there is. Hope I'm wrong, and I have yet t read all the verbiage. But I somehow doubt it.

I emailed Porsche public relations and raised this as my concern. In the end, that is all I am personally worried about. My wife doesn't want to get rid of the car unless the circumstances are dire, and while I'm not terribly happy about the payout, in the end it's not going to make much of a difference if I drive the wheels off it as planned. If anything, the extra warranty and the impending power train warranty is welcome.

But I want the vehicle we bought. Not some neutered version.

Porsche PR responded positively. But I have no idea what they will do if push comes to shove and I don't like the fix.

Honestly, no interest in pursuing my own litigation. Just not worth my time.

Spyerx

Lets see... paid $62 in 2014 for a CPO 2013 CD with 2k miles 78k MSRP, I've driven it for 3 years, 40k miles... Id be perfectly happy with a buyback in the $60k range. But I'd rather keep it and will take that 10k and just stash it away for maintenance costs. since I'll keep this thing for the full 8 year/125k mile warranty if I can.

gnat

Yeah I was skeptical when this all started and figured I'd opt out, but this is no $0.30 settlement. This is one of those seemingly rare cases where the class action is actually doing good for the class itself.

So I'll opt-in, take the initial 50% payout, and then wait and see.



From my perspective I was not likely to ever hit the "break even" point (~97k miles), but this will wipe out the premium I paid over the base Cayenne. So once the check clears then it starts "paying for itself"

chsu74

I was looking at a '15 with 16K miles from Greenwich Porsche last summer asking $59. Lowest they would go was $57 so I passed.

A few weeks later, I found a '13 with 52K miles for $38K OTD from a leasing company who took it in on a trade in. I ended up replacing tires and pads all around. Did not think 2 years of warranty and a newer style steering wheel for $17K was worth it.

Prices have not changed much for the past year and money back is probably factored into price today. Just look at the compensation as a discount. Your net value is cost of CDs.

WhipE350

So free AdBlue AND OIL change or oil changes? Not too bad.

NEVER MIND...I see they are paying us for the cost of our oil changes.

Wait "One AdBlue Refill and Oil Change". So if we get one AdBlue does that mean they don't expect extra AdBlue consumption?

PJ Cayenne

Sadly, everyone on this forum knows much more than those at the Porsche store. They are not allowed to implement the fix without your permission, per the agreement. A 10% reduction would bother me. And I agree, that a buyback is a good possibility if they don't fudge the performance tests.

nkycayenne

I suspect the performance delta may actually be pretty small for the Gen 2's ... I think what will change more significantly is the amount of DEF that gets consumed.

visitador

^^^ So far from what I read, Gen. 2.1 gets Gen 2.2 hardware. Then, both get "fixed" software.

skiahh

This.

And this.

Probably not this.

TAch Miami

The VW email just received mentions a trade-in option with the same dollars if no emission fix. Added benefit would be the state sales tax credit between the trade and new car I plan on configuring.

_______________
2014 991 TT
2013 958 CD

Mallens

Last week I sent a letter to all the parties I could find on the court docs and received the following reply from E. Cabraser. Here is what she wrote:

Thank you for including me in your recent letter regarding the proposed 3.0-liter TDI settlement. I serve as Plaintiffs’ Lead Counsel in
the “Clean Diesels” case , and appreciate your thoughtful and cogent observations and questions.
I’ve attached the transcript of the preliminary approval hearing held on February 14 of this week, the Executive Summaries of the
3.0-liter and Bosch settlements, the powerpoint slides that were used at the hearing, and the preliminary approval orders.
You should be getting direct notice of the settlements via email in a few days ; in the meantime, these materials should give you answers to
some of your questions. Regarding delay: EPA and CARB are not dallying here- they’ve been keeping VW on a strict schedule. Taking some time to see if, as these regulators believe, the newer “Generation Two” vehicles (including Porsche Cayennes) can be made fully emissions compliant has been described
by the Court as “environmental common sense”, and more responsible than an automatic mass buyback. The 2.0-Liter vehicles, and the Generation One (older) 3.0-Liters, cannot achieve such original emissions compliance, hence their buyback fates. Generation Two vehicles get a chance at full emissions redemption, but it is a time-limited one, under court enforcement and control.
Our class action settlement Agreement sets even tighter deadlines, or “decision dates”, than VW and Porsche wanted.
If “emissions compliant repairs”, that is, repairs that bring the vehicles into full compliance with their original NOx certification specs,
have not been approved by both EPA and CARB by the decision date for a group of vehicles, a buyback is triggered for those vehicles.
The decision date for your 2014 Porsche Cayenne is November 8, 2017.
VW and Porsche can buy limited extensions within which to gain the regulators’ approval, but they must pay the owners for any delay:
$500 per 30 days to each owner, for up to 90 days. Of course, if a fully NOx compliant repair is rejected, the buyback is triggered also.
The Defendants affirmatively represent that these emissions compliant repairs will not reduce performance.
Specified minor reductions in any performance metric would result in another $500 per owner payment, while any
serious performance degradations would again trigger additional remedies, including buyback. We trust EPA and CARB not to approve emissions compliant repairs which change the vehicles’ performance detrimentally- that can simply trade one environmental problem for another. We are also having independent testing of class vehicles done, before and after, including bench, track and road testing. The WVU experts who exposed the defeat device in the
first place will be conducting this testing for us.
We know owners are concerned, rightly, with the wait and the uncertainty, so 50% of the cash compensation that accompanies an emissions compliant repair
(the “owner repair payment”, in your case approximately $9,500) is payable shortly after final approval by the court;
the final approval hearing is set for May 11, 2017. We also have a settlement with Bosch running on the same approval cycle, which pays an additional $1500
to each 3.0-liter owner, on the same schedule. So your combined VW/Bosch cash payment, assuming a timely approved emissions compliant repair, is
approximately $11,000, with approximately $6,250 of that payable shortly after the May final approval, and the rest paid when the actual repair is made.
If your original or extended warranties would run out at any point between January 31, 2017 and the emissions compliant repair approval, the class
“bridge warranty” fills that gap and covers repairs. As with the 2.0-liter settlement, the above dates and payments will not be held up by any appeal- highly unusual in any settlement, but something necessary here, both for the environment and consumers.
You note that Porsche prices and values can vary widely, owing to options, not all of which are valued by NADA and KBB. We agree: the repair compensation formula as well as the buyback figures account for the options and packages that the industry does value, plus the buyback program, if triggered, enables owners to claim additional compensation for the extra options on their specific vehicles as well. Buyback values for the 2014 vehicles average 138.81% of September 2015 NADA Clean Trade, 128.05% of September 2015 NADA Clean Retail , and 100.62% of original MSRP. Additional information and payment ranges under the buyback are shown on pp. 9-11 of the attached 3.0-liter executive summary. Owners can do a trade-in with the dealer rather than a buyback with
VW, at the same Buyback value: in many states, structuring the transaction this way saves considerably on sales tax.
You can see why VW, Audi and Porsche have tremendous economic incentives to achieve full original NOx compliance under the settlement deadlines,
and without real detriment to performance, regardless of the challenge and expense per vehicle to do so: the aggregate buyback value of the 2013-2016 vehicles is over $3.2 billion.
With respect to the impact and the economics of Porsche returning its own
repaired Cayennes to the market , Porsche could do that-but its economic self-interest suggests it would not create a situation that damaged the market value of these or other VW, Audi, or Porsche cars, interfered with the profit opportunities of their dealers, or further damaged the manufacturers’ reputation.
Emissions modifications ( not original emissions compliant repairs, but reduced emissions modifications still acceptable to the regulators) recently became available for the 2.0-Liter Audi A3s. Over 3000 owners have already chosen this modification, and Audi may decide to modify the best of the A3s it
bought back ( after modifying owners’ vehicles, which have priority), to sell them here or elsewhere, after market testing to determine whether and at what level this will maintain or enhance their market value. We will be tracking the market values of these vehicles as well.
These are some of the highlights of the proposed settlements, and more details are covered in the attachments.
I am happy to answer any additional questions you may have.

Mallens

After reading most of the morning about what they proposed, I'm not confident that we aren't going to be disappointed with the outcome of all of this.

VAG Cheated:

Why are we still carrying any of this burden?

Why not implement a complete buyback and then allow VAG to try to come up with a fix that brings the vehicles into compliance.

If they can fix them, then they can allow their dealers to sell these cars to the public.

Mallens

Here is the my second email after i asked a few questions:

If there is greater performance degradation than would be covered by the $500, the settlement enables to seek whatever remedies- including but not necessarily limited to a buyback-are fair and necessary. We would do this on an expedited basis, VW could oppose, and Judge Breyer would decide. We did not limit this to a specific remedy because we don't know to what extent performance would be an issue. The buyback is the most obvious remedy, and the buyback values gave already been negotiated. But some owners might prefer to keep the vehicles nonetheless, with additional monetary compensation. So it is flexible. I do not know the probability of a fix. VW is dead certain they will achieve it, and has told the Court so repeatedly. Our experts say it is feasible- but that does not mean it will be achieved. We tightened the deadlines as much as we could do while still giving the submission and testing process a chance to succeed. We are fortunate to be before a Court who cares as much about speed and efficiency as the owners do. I would call him a true performance judge.

SignDoc

From the class attorney, looks like if you take the 50% upfront and there is an approved fix, you have to live with this and can't opt out.

Once the 50% payment is taken, one is committed to the options that become available:
- Emissions compliant repair+cash
- Buyback or trade-in + cash
- Emissions modification + cash.

The back-end opt-out is an additional option for everyone, if no emissions modification is approved. The 50% payment would need to be returned to exercise that opt out.