skiahh

$500 for the reduction in performance... I wonder how much a quality dyno run costs around here to demonstrate that loss of performance?

Or will they just design the fix knowing it's going to neuter these vehicles, and factor in the piddly $500 each?

PJ Cayenne

You can bet the emissions compliance will be met by cutting performance. What was scary (and sorry, I don't recall where I read it in the consent decree) was there didn't seem to be a lower limit of reduced power or economy. Seems like whatever the new power output and fuel consumption is will be fine per the agreement, but will just trigger the $500 penalty. So if I'm reading it right, anyone want to bet how low it will go? I will try to fish out the passage this evening.

skiahh

I wonder if they have a fix cued up knowing it's going to kill performance, and now that this agreement has been agreed to by "all" sides will have it approved in short order?

The approval speed will be telling, I think.

PJ Cayenne

They sure do have it cued up and it was a wise *** way to save about $3 billion while tossing the regulators a bone. We get to deal with what comes out of the backside of this dog. We can only hope something runs amok with "Timely".

skiahh

Or object to the settlement. Once the hearing is done, they have to offer the class time to object.

I'll be writing a letter about this issue.

WhipE350

I know I missed a day and read through the last 4 pages fast...but when I look at the .pdf where does it say the numbers for buyback are based on NADA.

Anyway, I was at my dealer yesterday and they want my Diesel BAD. They can't sell their loaner because it is considered new. Ours with the six years is as good as certified. I happened to walk up on them talking and they didn't know I was their. They were like get his Diesel and sell him the Macan GTS.

Looking at the program the best would be Approved Emissions
Modification for those that want to keep their SUV.

TXCayenne

So, I checked and a dyno run locally with 3-5 pulls is going to run about $100-$125. I would think that one of the class action lawyers would have done this on a client's car, but not sure that I ever seen that data any where online

I am not sure if part of Porsche's submission to approve the fix will be to submit dyno numbers pre & post fix? But I have not read the agreement in enough detail to understand what exact chain of events would trigger the "performance" penalty? It seems that Porsche would be controlling all the data or does the EPA run their own dyno tests in conjunction with emissions testing.

perlfather

Where do you see the details of the extended emission warranty?

If indeed this covers everything associated with fuel or emissions this is very favorable to owners. All the sensors, fuel pump etc are quite expensive on the 3.0l

Needsdecaf

It's buried, you need to look. It's actually better than I remember.

In Appendix B of the Proposed Partial Consent Decree , the definitions state:

2.28 “Emissions Modification” means the alterations to 3.0 Liter Subject Vehicles including all software recalibrations, and the replacement, repair, installation, or upgrading of parts related to the Emission Control System, that are designed to reduce emissions, remove all Defeat Devices and bring the vehicles into compliance with the applicable emissions standards or limits, and the other requirements specified in this Appendix B.

and

2.7 “Approved Emissions Modification” means an Emissions Modification submittedby Defendants and approved by EPA/CARB.

Then you go to section 3.9 which gives you:

3.9 Warranty: Defendants must provide an Emission Control System and an Engine Long Block warranty (collectively, the “Extended Emissions Warranty”) for each Subject 3.0 Liter Vehicle receiving an Approved Emissions Modification. The Extended Emissions Warranty shall cover all parts and labor, as well as the cost or provision of a loaner vehicle for warranty service lasting longer than 3 hours. Defendants must not impose on consumers any fees
or charges, and must pay any fees or charges imposed by its dealers related to the warranty service. The Extended Emissions Warranty shall provide warranty coverage as follows.

3.9.1 The Emission Control System warranty must cover the entire emission
control system including (1) all components that are replaced, repaired, installed, upgraded, or otherwise modified as part of the Approved Emissions Modification; (2) all components listed in subparagraphs 3.9.1 and 3.9.2; (3) and any other component that can reasonably be impacted by effects of the Approved Emissions Modification. The Emission Control System warranty must cover, at a minimum, the following parts:

i. The entire exhaust aftertreatment system including the DOC, the DPF, the
SCR catalyst, the dosing injector and other DEF system components, all
sensors and actuators, and any exhaust flap;

ii. The entire fuel system, including the fuel pumps, high pressure common
rail, fuel injectors, and all sensors and actuators;

iii. The EGR system including the EGR valve, EGR bypass valve, EGR
cooler, EGR filter, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and
actuators;

iv. The turbocharger system including all related hoses and pipes, all sensors
and actuators;

v. The OBD System and any malfunctions detected by the OBD systems;
and

vi. The ECU and the TCU.

3.9.2 The Engine Long Block warranty must cover the engine sub-assembly thatconsists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train.

3.9.3 The warranty period for the Extended Emissions Warranty shall be the
greater of:

i. 10 years or 120,000 actual miles whichever comes first; and

ii. 4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever comes first, from date and mileage of
implementing the Emissions Modification, except for vehicles offered for
resale, in which case, from the date and mileage of the first resale
transaction after the modification to the first person who in good faith
purchases the vehicle for purposes other than resale.

3.9.4 Defendants must make available online a searchable database that includes all 3.0 Liter Subject Vehicles, by which users, including Eligible Owners, Eligible Lessees, and prospective purchasers, may conduct a free-of-charge search by vehicle VIN to determine whether the Extended Emissions Warranty, and any Additional Warranty Extension, applies to a specific vehicle. To satisfy this requirement, Defendants may include a webpage that meets these specifications on the Emissions Modification Database, pursuant to subparagraph 3.1.17. Upon the modification of each and every Modified Vehicle, Defendants must identify whether such vehicle is covered by the
Extended Emissions Warranty by displaying the applicable warranty disclosure
statements when a user enters the VIN. Defendants must provide the VINs for all such vehicles to EPA/CARB within fifteen (15) Days of EPA/CARB’s request.

3.9.5 Defendants must also maintain a database that includes all 3.0 Liter
Subject Vehicles, by which Dealers shall search by vehicle VIN to determine whether the Extended Emissions Warranty applies to a specific 3.0 Liter Subject Vehicle. Defendants shall establish procedures such that the vehicle VIN shall dictate component or system coverage described in the approved Extended Emissions Warranty Component List. Such procedures shall include a feature on the database by which Dealers shall enter the identification number for any part pertaining to a Modified Vehicle and the database shall inform all Dealers whether such part is covered by the Extended Emissions Warranty, in
accordance with the approved Extended Emissions Warranty Component List.
Defendants must maintain the Extended Emissions Warranty Component List and the Dealer database to ensure current part identification numbers are listed. In no event shall warranty coverage be subject to service writers’ discretion.

3.9.6 The Extended Emissions Warranty is associated with the car, and remains
available to any and all subsequent owners and operators.

3.9.7 The Extended Emissions Warranty shall not supersede or void any
outstanding warranty. To the extent there is a conflict in any provision(s) of this warranty and any outstanding warranty, that conflict shall be resolved to the benefit of the consumer.

3.9.8 The Extended Emissions Warranty shall not modify, limit, or affect any
state, local or federal legal rights available to the owners.

3.9.9 The Lemon Law Provisions and other warranty provisions set forth in
Appendix A shall apply.

3.9.10 Any waiver of any provision of the Extended Emissions Warranty by an
owner is null and void.

3.9.11 For Eligible Owners and Eligible Lessees who decline to receive the
Emissions Modification for an Eligible Vehicle, Defendants must continue to service such Eligible Vehicle in accordance with existing applicable warranty provisions, provided that if service of the ECU is needed, in no event may Defendants install the Master Series Calibration. Such requirements, and the potential effect on Eligible Owners and Eligible Lessees must be clearly described in the Emissions Modification Disclosure
Statement under subparagraph 4.3.10.

stronbl

Additionally, in the DOJ 2nd Partial Consent Decree, Appendix B, Section 3.4 outlines the following modifications required -

"3.4 Additional Requirements for Generation 2.1 3.0 Liter Subject Vehicles: In addition to the requirements of Paragraph 3.1, each Proposed Emissions Modification for a Generation 2.1 3.0 Liter Subject Vehicle must also:
3.4.1 Require the installation of the SCR catalyst DF500B, including a turbine mixer and DEF dosing valve, on all Q7 model years within Generation 2.1. Require the installation of an updated Cylinder Pressure Sensor for all model year 2013-2014 vehicles. Require the installation of the SCR catalyst DF500B, including a turbine mixer and DEF dosing valve, on all Cayenne and Touareg model years within Generation 2.1. Require the replacement of a PM Sensor on all GEN 2.1 vehicles.
3.4.2 Comply with the OBD requirements under Cal. Code Regs. tit. 13, §1968.2 (2013), except for the permitted noncompliances specified in the PermittedNoncompliances Table and as set forth under this Appendix B."

MJG911

for my attorney friends.
I leased mine in July 16 and bought out the lease in Dec 16. From what I read, I fit the first two categories:

"o, (1) at any time between September 18, 2015 and
November 2, 2015, inclusive, owned or leased a Volkswagen, Audi, or Porsche 3.0-liter TDI
vehicle in the United States or its territories (an “Eligible Vehicle,” defined more fully in Section
2.40); or who (2) between November 3, 2015 and the Claim Submission Deadline for Eligible
Owners and Lessees, inclusive, become the owner of an Eligible Vehicle in the United States or
its territories"

I can't find any of the exclusions that would apply to me, so I should be good, right?

perlfather

Thank you very much. This is quite encompassing and lasts a long time. I would be happy with this and the payments.

(As John Cleese said in one of the Fawlty tower episodes - something like: "I can't believe I am (will be) ahead!"!)

visitador

Remember awhile CARB sent letters to owners requesting if they can rent their CDs for testing as benchmarks?

visitador

I wonder if the DF500B is what the 2.2 already have. Turbine mixer? The vortex shown in European 2.0 diesels?

Needsdecaf

Maybe one of these?