Mallens

From the Document:


I wanted to make Your Honor aware that within the last two
weeks, EPA approved the first emissions modification that the
company had submitted to the regulators for approval. By doing
so, that will allow car owners who wish to keep their vehicles
to do so and have them modified rather than sell them back.

Those vehicles are the Generation 3 2-liter vehicles which are
the model year 2015 cars.

Mallens

More from the transcript:

The wrinkle with the 3 liters was there were newer
vehicles which we refer to as Generation 2 vehicles, which
Volkswagen believed was technically feasible to repair those
vehicles so they could be brought fully into compliance with
the certified emission standards. So the regulators thought
that if that could happen, it should happen.
So if Volkswagen successfully demonstrates that that
solution be achieved, then the consent decree does not require
Volkswagen to buy those vehicles back. If they cannot achieve
those technical standards, then the framework would revert back
to the similar framework with the buyback, lease terminations,
and emissions modification. We estimate that that program
could cost up to an additional $1 billion to implement.

Mallens

More....


So as we know, January 31st is one of those deadlines that
the Court just simply isn't going to move, and we'll anticipate
filings on or before that date with respect to the 3-liter
cars, and then we will have a hearing for preliminary approval
on Valentine's Day. Valentine's Day. So bring your Valentine
to San Francisco, and we will hear this matter for a
determination as to whether or not preliminary approval. It
will be 8:00 o'clock on February 14th, and I anticipate with
respect to the dealers that I'll have an opinion out shortly.
So thank you. We're in recess.

Needsdecaf

I think it's more than that. I think it's largely because VW originally said "we don't care, we're not dealing with it, sue us". That's their mentality. And it totally backfired.

illtww

so is a 2014 Cayenne considered Gen 2?

If it is a Gen 1 then I am not seeing where they submitted a "solution" for "review"?

Are they VW expecting to buy back the 2013/14 CD's at this point?

mdrobc1213

No buy back for the 2013/2014's I believe at this point.
The 2014 CD I think is Gen 3?

Dan87951

I don't there Porsche is planing a buy back for Cayennes.

chsu74

Gen 1 diesels are in Touaregs and Q7s. Here is the difference. I also read that there are 4 chains in the motor instead of 4 in gen 2 but can't find the link.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013...0823-audi.html

"Audi banking on Gen 2 3.0L TDI diesel for US sales; calls for a “fair shot” for diesel (update w/ rally results)
23 August 2013
Tdi0
Audi's Gen 2 3.0L TDI. Click to enlarge.
Audi of America introduced four new TDI clean diesel models for the US market this year—the Audi A8, A7, A6, Q5—along with an updated Q7 TDI, all equipped with a second-generation 3.0L V6 TDI diesel engine. (Earlier post.) This week in Washington, the company held a series of media drives (“TDI Efficiency Rally”) for the Q5, A6 and A7 diesel models to highlight their efficiency and performance, and also offered up its—as well as several other experts’—perspectives on the potential for diesel in the US market.

“If we are going to reward efficiency, and that’s the goal,” said Joe Jacuzzi, Chief Communications Officer, Audi of America in opening remarks, “then diesel really needs a fair shot. Not only is it more powerful and contains up to 30% better efficiency than traditional gasoline, etc. The fact of the matter is [it requires] very little infrastructure change and secondly, its a very simple driving behavior change. You move from one pump to the other.”

One of our primary goals and objectives is to level the playing field for clean diesel vehicles. Our challenge, well, President Obama in one policy statement after another has advocated for an all of the above strategy when it comes to sustainable mobility. And yet clean diesel, one of the cleanest choices for putting the US on the road to energy independence, hasn’t see any sort of incentive since the Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA) of 2007.

TDI clean diesel represents almost 25% of Audi and Volkswagen US sales. Are these sales incentivized? No. Do they receive HOV access for their improved fuel economy and ultra low emissions? No. Do they get state or federal tax breaks? No. In fact in 6 of the states, diesel fuel is penalized with additional state taxes. So diesel fuel gets taxed twice or penalized twice at the federal and state level. The only incentive that TDI vehicles receive—and it isn’t doled out by the US government—is almost consistently best-in-class fuel economy, reduced CO2 emissions and clean diesel drivers knowing that they are doing their part to reduce the impact on the environment.

—Anna Schneider, VP Industry and Government Relations, Volkswagen Group of America
(Schneider leads all advocacy efforts for the Group at the federal and state level. Previously she was vice president over government relations at Toyota Motor North America and executive director, government relations at Mitsubishi Motors North America.)

Market. During his presentation at the TDI Efficiency Rally, UMTRI researcher Bruce Belzowski first presented a summary of his analysis of the total cost of ownership of diesels with a comparison to that of their gas vehicle counterparts. Essentially, Belzowski and his colleague Paul Green found that drivers of diesel vehicles can save thousands of dollars in total ownership costs compared to similar gasoline vehicles. (Earlier post.)

In that study, they developed three- and five-year cost estimates of depreciation by modeling used-vehicle auction data and fuel costs by modeling government data. They then combined these estimates with three- and five-year estimates for repairs, maintenance, insurance, fees and taxes from an outside data source.

Belzowski also presented preliminary results from a survey of powertrain experts—from automotive manufacturers, suppliers, government, NGOs, academia and consulting—asking for their predictions of powertrain penetrations for 2016, 2020, and 2025. The survey is similar to surveys run by UMTRI on the same topic in 2006 and 2007. The results so far suggest that:

The penetration of spark-ignited engines in passenger cars is projected to drop to 51% in 2025 from 74% in 2016. At the same time “advanced diesel—which doesn’t have a specific technology definition, Belzowski said, but instead is whatever a given expert considers will constitute “advanced diesel”—will increase to 12% in 2025 from 8% in 2016.

For passenger cars, hybrids will continue to claim a larger share of the market than diesel, rising to 28% in 2025 from 15% in 2016. Fuel cells are seen as hitting 1% by 2025; extended range electric vehicles, 3%; and battery-electric vehicles, 4%.

The penetration of spark-ignited powertrains in light trucks is projected to drop to 55% in 2025 from 74% in 2016. Advanced diesel will increase to 23% in 2025 from 17% in 2016.

The 2025 diesel share is higher than the projected share for hybrids (17%); both hybrids and diesels are far beyond the share of the other types of powerplant listed (HCCI, fuel cell, extended range electric vehicle, and electric): 1% apiece.

A separate forecast from LMC Automotive, shared by Audi at the event, projects diesel volume in the US growing from 445,376 units and 3.2% marketshare in 2012 to 1.25 million units and 7.4% marketshare by 2018—i.e., share and volume are expected to more than double from 2013 to 2018.

LMC’s forecast suggests that pickup trucks will represent a shrinking percentage of total diesel sales in the US, dropping from 66% of diesel sales in 2012 to 35% in 2018. That drop, however,is offset by significant growth in sales into the SUV segment—an increase from 8% of total diesel sales in 2012 to 26% in 2018.

The company sees the percentage of diesel sales into the compact car segment growing from 4% in 2012 to 11% in 2018. Van share grows from 5% in 2012 to 12% in 2018; and the midsize car share of total diesel sales drops from 17% in 2013 to 10% in 2018.

Updated 3.0 TDI coming at Frankfurt
Audi is refreshing its flagship A8 luxury sedan with a number of technology updates, including more power and efficiency from the gasoline and diesel engine range.
Among the changes is a new 190 kW (258 hp) 3.0L TDI—a version of the second-generation version of the 3.0 TDI diesel engine featured in the diesel-fueled Q5, Q7, A6, A7 and A8 in the US market.
The refreshed A8 will be shown at the upcoming Frankfurt Motor Show.
The 3.0 TDI. Audi is only applying the new second-generation 3.0-liter TDI in the models currently on sale in the US: the Q5, Q7, A6, A7 and A8. The engines are paired with 8-speed Tiptronic transmissions.

The first generation 3.0L TDI delivered 225 hp (168 kW) and 406 lb-ft (550 N·m) of torque; the current second-generation engine is 55 lbs (25 kg) lighter (from 458 lbs to 425 lbs), and delivers 240 hp (179 kW) and 428 lb-ft (580 N·m) of torque. (The Gen 2 engine is also a bit shorter than its predecessor.)

The company had set a number of development objectives for Gen2 of the engine, said Axel Macher, head of Thermodynamics/Application V6 TDI at Audi in Neckarsulm, Germany. These included:

Higher power and torque;
Lower fuel consumption;
Meeting ULEV2 emissions;
A start-stop system;
Minimized weight;
Compact design;
Acoustic refinement;
Modular construction;
Optimized driving dynamics; and
Optimized production time.
Audi took 26 lbs (11.8 kg) out of the crankcase, crankshaft, main bearing frame and upper oil pan—the last by switching from aluminum to magnesium. Macher noted that Audi has a new machining process that allows them to make a cylinder bore that will be perfectly round when the engine is operating. “If you have a perfect round bore in engine operation mode, you can reduce the pretension of piston weight, and that reduces friction,” Macher said. Laser smoothing of the bores also reduces friction.

Further contributing to a reduction in friction was going from four chain drive chains to two, as well as a reduction in weight of 8.8 lbs (4 kg).

For the second-generation, Audi further optimized the turbo with integral insulation and by moving away from flange-based mounting to the exhaust manifolds to an integrated component. Reducing thermal mass, it enables the turbo to reach operating temperature more quickly in the heat up phase. Audi also specifically optimized the turbocharger for the North American market to deliver very quick performance off the line. (A design target that appears definitely to have been met, at least subjectively, based on our experience in the TDI vehicles.) In Germany, Macher noted, the turbo is optimized for longer stretches of high-speed autobahn driving.

Tdi1
Changes in the exhaust manifolds and turbo from Gen 1 to Gen 2. Click to enlarge.
Injection pressure in the Gen 2 3.0 TDI is raised to 2000 bar, helping increase the power output and reduce emissions. The piezo injectors also use a multi injection strategy—two small pilot injections, followed by the main injection, followed by a post-injection. This strategy contributes to the quietness of the engine.

You need high EGR rates so you can reduce 70-90 % of the NOxemissions. With the second generation of the diesels, we have a bigger EGR cooler, we have tubes with a bigger diameter, so we have less gas flow resistance. This helps us to make better fuel economy and good emissions.

—Alex Macher"

illtww

So we are waiting on Jan 31st to see what will happen with the "fix"

skiahh

Or maybe the 14th; depends on what they release on the 31st. The agreement is due to the court then, but the hearing isn't until 2 weeks later.

Mallens

VW site's info on 3.0L settlement:

Volkswagen AG has reached a resolution with the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) on behalf of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the State of California by and through the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and the California Attorney General to resolve civil claims of these parties regarding eligible Volkswagen, Audi, and Porsche 3.0L TDI diesel engine vehicles in the United States. Of approximately 80,000 3.0L TDL vehicles that were produced for sale in the United States, approximately 22,000 Volkswagen, 47,000 Audi vehicles, and 11,000 Porsche vehicles are currently in use. Certain vehicles are eligible for buybacks or lease terminations while others are eligible for emissions modifications, if approved by regulators, and if modifications are not approved, these vehicles will be eligible for buybacks or lease terminations.

The agreement covering the proposed 3.0L TDI recall program is subject to the approval of Judge Charles R. Breyer of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, who presides over the federal Multi-District Litigation (MDL) proceedings related to the diesel matter.

Volkswagen has also reached agreement with the Court-appointed Plaintiffs� Steering Committee (PSC) on substantial aspects of the relief that consumer class members will receive, and the parties are working to resolve the remaining issues. We are committed to earning back the trust of all our stakeholders and thank our customers and dealers for their patience as the process moves forward. We are restricted by the Court�s confidentiality order from providing details about the settlement discussions between Volkswagen and the Plaintiffs� Steering Committee. We will provide more information as soon as we are able. The Court has scheduled a status conference on Thursday December 22 at 11am Pacific for the parties to report on progress towards a resolution. Proposed 3.0L TDI Recall Program

This settlement applies to all 3.0 Liter (6-cylinder) �TDI� diesels that Volkswagen, Audi, or Porsche marketed or sold in the U.S. for model years 2009 through 2016. The vehicles are divided into two Generations, as follows:


Generation 1 Vehicles

Volkswagen Touareg
2009-2012

Audi Q7
2009-2012


Generation 2 Vehicles

Volkswagen Touareg
2013-2016

Audi Q7
2013-2015

Audi A6, A7, A8, A8L, Q5
2014-2016

Porsche Cayenne Diesel
2013-2016


Subject to Court approval of the proposed 3.0L TDI recall program, Volkswagen has agreed, among other terms, to:
Subject to Court approval of the proposed 3.0L TDI recall program, Volkswagen has agreed, among other terms, to:

Offer buyback or lease terminations of eligible Generation 1 3.0L vehicles, and provide free emissions modifications (if approved by the EPA and CARB) that will substantially reduce emissions for Generation 1 vehicles.
Provide free emissions modifications (if approved by EPA and CARB) to bring eligible Generation 2 3.0L vehicles into compliance with their Certified Exhaust Emission Standards. If Volkswagen is unable to perform emissions modifications that meet Certified Exhaust Emission Standards, then Volkswagen must offer to buy back or terminate the leases of eligible Generation 2 3.0L vehicles and may also seek approval to offer an emissions modification to substantially reduce emissions.
Volkswagen will also pay $225 million into an environmental trust, managed by a trustee appointed by the Court, to remediate excess nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions from 3.0L TDI vehicles.
Volkswagen will also pay $25 million to CARB to promote the use of non-polluting vehicles and will undertake efforts to support the use of zero emissions vehicles (ZEV) and non-polluting Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV), including the introduction of three new non-polluting BEVs in California and a Green City initiative, which may include the operation of ZEV car sharing services, zero emission transit applications, and zero emission freight transit projects.
For Generation 2 vehicles, Volkswagen expects that it can bring the vehicles to the same Tier 2/Bin 5 emissions standard to which the vehicles were originally certified and that applies generally to all manufacturers of light duty vehicles certified at this standard. Provided Volkswagen obtains necessary approval from the regulators, the settlement does not require Volkswagen to offer buyback or lease termination for the Generation 2 vehicles that can be made fully emissions compliant. If Volkswagen cannot gain regulatory approval of this Emissions Compliant Recall, then it must offer the buyback and lease termination, and may also seek approval to offer an emissions modification to reduce emissions.

Volkswagen will begin the settlement program as soon as the Court grants final approval of the settlement agreement. At the earliest, approval will occur in the spring of 2017. Consumers with eligible vehicles do not need to contact Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, or their dealers, at this time. Individual consumers will receive extensive notification of their rights and options if the Court grants approval of the recall program.

midas

I thought this was important to post here. Hard to comment when we don't know what the compensation will look like but that's what the courts are asking for. This information is from QUBE5 from Audizine forum:

Since the Public’s time to comment is ONLY OPEN for 30 DAYS(starting 12/29/2016), if you want to share your comments about the 3.0L TDI Settlement, please make sure you do so immediately.

If you believe that all Generation 2 3.0L TDI owners should also get a buyback option, or if you think 3.0L TDI owners deserve a certain amount of compensation, then please share your comments via mail or email to one of the addresses below.



https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...-clean-air-act



All comments must be submitted no later than thirty (30) days after 12/29/2016. Comments may be submitted either by email or by mail:

To submit comments: Send them to:


By Email pubcomment-ees.enrd@usdoj.gov


By Mail Assistant Attorney General, U.S. DOJ—ENRD, P.O. Box 7611, Washington, DC 20044-7611

Needsdecaf

That's been there since the last conference call.

stronbl

I just read the latest as well ... a bit long but an easy read. I found most interesting the comments about the 2.0L Gen 3 now having an approved EPA (CARB too??) emissions cert. See bottom of page 28 through top of page 29 for details and context. But here is part of that passage.

Quote:
I wanted to make Your Honor aware that within the last two
weeks, EPA approved the first emissions modification that the
company had submitted to the regulators for approval. By doing
so, that will allow car owners who wish to keep their vehicles
to do so and have them modified rather than sell them back.

Those vehicles are the Generation 3 2-liter vehicles which are
the model year 2015 cars.
And I understand from Ms. Cabraser and PSC that, you know,
the class members are already availing themselves of that
option.
End quote:

This is of particular interest to us with the 3.0L Gen 2 vehicles as these 2.0L Gen 3 (EA288 diesel engine) has the urea based NOx reduction system, which I believe is quite similar to our [AdBlue] system. There may be other emission differences between the Gen 3 2.0L and the Gen 2 3.0L diesels, but nonetheless this particular engine has received approval. It will be very interesting to see / read any feedback on performance and MPG changes from those that opt for this emissions fix route.

gnat

So apparently one of the first moves by Trump's new administration was to strip references to climate change from the White House website.

Is it now in VW's best interest to stall to see if the new administration forces the EPA and DOJ to drop the case?