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Motor seized within 5 weeks of purchase! Help!

 
Old 09-15-2014, 05:46 AM
  #16  
Cuda911
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Hey, here's a guy selling a good engine (I think a 996 3.6 fits into Boxster):

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...nsmission.html
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Old 09-15-2014, 09:40 PM
  #17  
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Sorry for the misfortune on your first Porshe. Take a look on ebay for a used engine or on this forum. Base model engines are cheaper than the 3.2. Try to find a descent engine swap it in or sell it and cut your loses. Tough choices ahead of you.

Take a look at this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-Boxster-S...#ht_432wt_1204

Make sure you do a good or better job checking out any new engine you buy.
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Old 09-15-2014, 10:10 PM
  #18  
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You'll have to explore what consumer protection laws there are in your region and probably speak to someone in consumer fraud.
Well, I called Hillsboro Consumer Protection, the dealership I bought it from, the Porsche dealership that did the inspection, and the company. Unfortunately, no one is able to help me. That was approximately my expectation.

If you can afford a repair, send to Jake at Flat 6 Innovations.
I talked to Jake's partner over at flat-six. I really enjoyed speaking with him. He was one of the most knowledgeable and frank persons I've had the opportunity to talk to about this. It was clear from our conversation that those guys are in a league of their own in knowledge and experience. The rebuild option does cost, however, and I'm thinking for that money I might be able to put together a pretty sweet project car.

I am surprised no one has mentioned this sooner, but it's possible your motor is not toast? To me it sounds like your vapor separator could have failed dramatically. Have you guys tried removing the plugs and cranking the engine over? It is definitely worth it to see if it's hydrolocked with oil. How much metal was in the filter?
The filter itself did not have very much metal on it, just a few specs on the whole thing. However, the housing underneath contained 10-25 mL of oil that was full of glitter. Behind the seats, the crank had absolutely no give when he put a long wrench to it. Is it even possible that this could be a less expensive calamity?

And if possible you want to buy an engine from a business that offers some kind of "warranty"
I am looking around for used engines on the net and I am seeing some that do come with a 1 year warranty. What are those warranties really worth? Are there any "used engine" companies in the US with a good reputation for standing by these guarantees?

And if I do get another 986 engine, how would you rate the various builds for reliability and failure rate? Does anyone have a general sense? Has that been discussed before? Best, worst, and in between?
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Old 09-15-2014, 11:09 PM
  #19  
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Usually the warranties with used engines are just to give peace of mind. They won't cover labor or individual components. Like if the water pump goes, you are SOL but if the rotating assembly seizes, they will send a new one, but not pay to swap it.
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Old 09-16-2014, 12:00 AM
  #20  
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Can someone PM me the best used motor dealers for a guy in the southeast us?

Last edited by Really; 09-16-2014 at 01:04 AM. Reason: brevity
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Old 09-16-2014, 09:47 AM
  #21  
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Your best bet is to find a used 2.7 and do the swap yourself, along with upgrading the IMSB. It'd be a tough undertaking that would require the right tools, but it would probably save you a couple of thousand dollars depending on how many tools you already own. The motor is still going to cost at least $3k if you get it through a normal route though.

The good news is that there are lots of resources on how to do pretty much anything to these cars available for free online. Pelican Parts and Pedro's Garage are two sites that are very good, and there are many more. If you get stuck, the forum community is knowledgable and helpful. So don't rule out doing it yourself.
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Old 09-16-2014, 01:09 PM
  #22  
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"The filter itself did not have very much metal on it, just a few specs on the whole thing. However, the housing underneath contained 10-25 mL of oil that was full of glitter. Behind the seats, the crank had absolutely no give when he put a long wrench to it. Is it even possible that this could be a less expensive calamity?"

There is still a definite possibility.
The metal, although not a particularly great thing to find- is quite common when you've changed hundreds if not thousands of filters on these cars. I'm not talking chunks, but the bottom of the filter housing having some sparkly oil (like a glitter slurry?) has been seen on many motors running fine, and they continue to run fine for years after... (Still not a particularly GOOD sign, and probably a result of a failing bypass valve per flat6 research)
I'm just saying without chunks of material that are obviously cam drive components, this would not indicate lockup failure to me.
I HAVE personally seen failed vapor separators hydrolock engines. They generally go fantastically, with a huge sudden injestion of oil that looks like a destroyed motor from the rear view. The oil snuffs out the spark and the motor Boggs to a stop. Then the oil runs down from the intake into the ports and open valves, causing hydrolock when you try and crank it. Yes this "could" bend rods. Yes, the multiple cars I have rescued from this situation ran perfectly afterwords for thousands and thousands of miles (including serious track abuse) without any signs of a bent rod. Yes, these cars would not crank over AT ALL with a breaker bar on the crank pulley.
I'm just saying, pull the plugs out and rotate the motor- pumping all the oil out of the cylinders. Then clean the plugs and reinstall them. If it starts, replace the vapor separator- run it for a while, and change the plugs.
Or, you are screwed, but why not try?

Ps- if Im right, PLEASE come back and tell us... So people will start believing my advise on this board
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Old 09-16-2014, 01:32 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Really View Post
Can someone PM me the best used motor dealers for a guy in the southeast us?
DC automotive in N.C.

Be very wary of salvage yards in Atlanta!


Remove oil sump cover on bottom of the engine to get a peak inside & check for metal in pan.
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Old 09-16-2014, 09:59 PM
  #24  
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There is still a definite possibility.
The metal, although not a particularly great thing to find- is quite common when you've changed hundreds if not thousands of filters on these cars. I'm not talking chunks, but the bottom of the filter housing having some sparkly oil (like a glitter slurry?) has been seen on many motors running fine, and they continue to run fine for years after... (Still not a particularly GOOD sign, and probably a result of a failing bypass valve per flat6 research)
Not to thread crap or pirate away from the OP, but I'm in a similar boat as him. Over the weekend I did an oil change but was unable to get the filter off (crappy wrench). Not wanting to leave it dry I filled it with oil I had on hand for our Touareg - Castrol Syntec 5W-30 - and noticed as I drove in the 84 degree weather that I was getting some oil light flickering when ever the car was sitting in traffic (coolant temp seems fine, quantity is fine, color is fine. Oil looks like oil and the coolant looks like coolant).
I did a quick search online and saw where some oil light flickering after spirited driving was "normal" and supposedly referenced in the owner's manual.

Well I looked through the entire manual and there ain't a damn thing that says oil light flickering was normal, but it did show that my oil weight choice was suitable for under 50 degrees F. So I drained the oil (not cheap), and got the filter off this time.

This is what I found, and the reason I am inserting the quote from an above poster:




This is the drain tub for my waste oil. There is some non metallic, really pretty flakes shown here.





Sum total of metallic flakes that were in my (stock) filter.

Now, where I'm different from the OP is that my engine is not seized. In fact it runs perfectly and makes no nasty noises. A very slight rattle on cold start that goes away instantly as it fires and gets oil. Other than that, my car hauls *** and makes me smile.

I filled it back up with more Castrol but this time I put in 10W-40. Starts and runs quietly. I only let it ran for about 45 seconds because I was super depressed that I own a boat anchor and not a sports car.

I've worked on my own vehicles for 35 years, and built engines from scratch. I have never (other than a time when I ran the crap out of two stroke bikes, but that's a different story) had more than a flake or two in a crank case.

Subject engine has just turned 120k miles, and I've only put maybe 500 on it.

Earlier today I signed up for Jake's class in California in October (two day "101" class).

My first inclination is to not run the car any more. Drain the oil, pull the sump and inspect. Then, no matter what I find I need to pull the transaxle and get my hands on that IMS, if for no other reason to know what kind it is.

Thoughts?

Oh, and to the OP: I feel for you. You had a PPI done by someone that we all think might have caught it and they didn't. That really sucks.
As for buying a used motor, I don't follow that theory. All you're going to do is get another unknown number of miles with a pit in your stomach waiting for it to happen again.
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Old 09-16-2014, 10:22 PM
  #25  
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If that metal is really from your engine that it runs perfectly and makes no noises is perplexing.

You must use a *clean* drain pan to catch the oil as it drains from the sump and I like to use another clean drain pan to catch just the oil and filter from the housing.

I would agree with you that you should not run the engine any more until you have sorted out where that metal is coming from. If it is ferrous the odds favor a failing IMSB. If it is aluminum then a chain is running over a bare aluminum chain guide. The composite plastic covering having gone missing.

With a used engine there can be a pit in the stomach but it will go away after awhile, provided the engine holds together, of course. But the odds are it will provided some effort is expended to select a good engine to begin with.

You are probably facing some serious internal engine work. The class will likely pay for itself.
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:50 AM
  #26  
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I was typing in a hurry earlier and mistakenly typed "metallic" and "non-metallic" when I meant magnetic and non magnetic.
I appreciate the response.
The pan I use to catch the oil was perfectly clean. It is a large oil container with a dent in one side that contains a sump drain to the internal chamber, blah, blah - standard issue from the local parts house except that it is the big one to contain 30+ quarts and has a huge sump drain so it isn't overwhelmed by either the Boxster or our Touareg which both pee like horses.
The dirty oil that was in the car when I bought it showed no metal flakes in the catch pan, and as I mentioned above I was unable to get the filter loose on that first oil change. So at that time I was still young and dumb.

When I dumped the basically brand new 5W-30 it came out super clean, until I removed the filter and dumped it sideways, and that is what you see above. At first I didn't even see that since the pan was still under the car catching oil. In fact I let it drain for about an hour while I went to the book store.

Pan still under the car, I reached in and pulled the filter housing out and removed the cartridge. I saw a few wisps of gray gasket material (I'm calling it gray, I'm color blind. It could have been pale green) on the pleats of the paper filter. The few shiny specs I saw caused me to reach for a magnet and I started milking the pleats to see what stuck. I kept wiping it on the shop rag and going back for more, already sick to my stomach. That is when I turned to the pan still under the car. I poured out the inch or so that was still in the bottom of the filter housing into the pan and that is what you see in the picture that isn't on the rag. There was some sludgy non-magnetic stuff in the bottom of the filter housing which I cleaned meticulously before installing the fresh stock filter.

I can't even explain why I filled it back up with oil. I was probably still in shock and hoping it was a bad dream.

So again, my plan is drop the pan and see what ugliness is in the bottom of that.

I've been studying everything I could about this engine since before I took delivery of my car. At this point I'm familiar with all the internals, the tools required and the sequence of events for everything in the engine r/r and tear down and build.

I could also clarify, I bought this car as a hobby. I don't need to drive it, it is just fills the hole left in me since I was in the seventh grade and had a paper route and fell in love with a late 70's orange 911 Targa. I'm sure you can all relate.
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:23 AM
  #27  
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If that metal is really from your engine that it runs perfectly and makes no noises is perplexing.
Nope, thats normal with the M96. They run fine, till they pop.

I spoke to the OP of this thread earlier today. He's in a tough spot and it doesn't wound like we can help him, as he's looking for a different set of options. I did give him a reality check, though, and he appreciated it.
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:50 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations View Post
Nope, thats normal with the M96. They run fine, till they pop.

I spoke to the OP of this thread earlier today. He's in a tough spot and it doesn't wound like we can help him, as he's looking for a different set of options. I did give him a reality check, though, and he appreciated it.
If you have mechanic friend to help you to part out , you should look at prices on eBay for the parts you can sell - transmission, good, seats, wheels, brake calipers, altenator etc. could add up to close to $10k ? Not sure how many miles and what was your original purchase price - but you might be able to get a lot back - better than fitting a used motor ? Then get another one with ims already done !

When ppi was done - did they pull oil filter and look for debris ? If po noticed an issue they could have changed oil and filter to cover it up -before trading the car - but I'm not sure how many ppi guys pull the filter ....

For guy that noticed metal in his filter - yeah if you have tools and time - drop pan and see what you find - then decide to pull out imsb - also look at chain tensioners ... I guess flat 6 could tell you about lots of other possible failure modes that could cause debris - might also want to do blackstone analysis I the original oil if you still have some to see what sort of metal and levels are in there ....
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Old 09-17-2014, 09:34 AM
  #29  
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If you end up parting it out, I'll buy the broken core engine. I need it for my lab its time to develop another "fix".
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Old 09-17-2014, 11:10 AM
  #30  
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Well, slow down guys. I'm still weighing my options and it is quite a stylish ride. I'd like to get it back on the road in short order. I'm leaning toward repair or replace. I'm in need of good information to make an informed decision.

So I spent a good part of the afternoon yesterday hanging out with my mechanic. We pulled the plugs out and immediately noticed that it had popped a valve spring and shot a hole right through the aluminum housing.

So I suppose my question here is aside from the #1 head, the valve, and the housing, what other damage might I expect to find and what is a good approach to assess from the motor whether a repair or replace is in order?
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