991 GT3 RS will NOT have a manual box
02-14-2015, 09:02 AM
#76
Nordschleife Master
but to each his own, obviously. these are high class problems
02-14-2015, 09:58 AM
#77
Rennlist Member
i have no doubt, it'll be more exciting as a track day car
when you are on the envelope of adhesion, with your hand nudging the outside of the steering wheel coaxing the the car to turn in, shifting is an added distraction and the joy of driving doesn't lessen if you are using paddles, in fact , going faster makes it more exciting.
Track guys should like paddles. Ariel atoms in the UK with paddles (at 20k option price) are selling well because of that.
To boot, when you are done and want to drive home, the pdk makes it a cinch.
what it doesn't do is make it pleasurable at 3-5/10s, where downshifting on empty winding roads is a joy and working the gear box makes you at one with the car.
So how you drive I think does matter in this context.
But, last of all, the art of driving a stick is always fun so there'll always be a place for it but to dismiss paddles as unexciting is simply wrong. Depending on the application, it can often be much more fun than a manual.
when you are on the envelope of adhesion, with your hand nudging the outside of the steering wheel coaxing the the car to turn in, shifting is an added distraction and the joy of driving doesn't lessen if you are using paddles, in fact , going faster makes it more exciting.
Track guys should like paddles. Ariel atoms in the UK with paddles (at 20k option price) are selling well because of that.
To boot, when you are done and want to drive home, the pdk makes it a cinch.
what it doesn't do is make it pleasurable at 3-5/10s, where downshifting on empty winding roads is a joy and working the gear box makes you at one with the car.
So how you drive I think does matter in this context.
But, last of all, the art of driving a stick is always fun so there'll always be a place for it but to dismiss paddles as unexciting is simply wrong. Depending on the application, it can often be much more fun than a manual.
The harder you drive the more necessary the paddles become. I still like using the shifter with the proper sequential action tho. Maybe after a few lapping days it all makes sense!
02-15-2015, 12:38 AM
#79
GT3 player par excellence
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fernando, drove one on track, ordered one
i drove chormium's, ordered one
carl drove chasens, waiting to buy one
chris drove one, waiting to buy one
anonymous with more RS/CGT than i do, bought 2
my tech NASA GTS3 champ, drove it. "that's fking crazy gearbox...."
andre, drove 991, not missing his well set up moton'd 7.2
chromium, never looking back
glen, ton's of GT/cup cars, never looking back
not saying it's end all be all. just saying it's really not that bad. and i would take it over H pattern. even at 1/10 i like it more.
02-15-2015, 09:42 AM
#81
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of course i trust what the man say's.
he knows his stuff and cut's through all the bull****, so the truth is laid bare.
ok - but the test of time still needs to be played out on pdk-s.
still early days yet.
he knows his stuff and cut's through all the bull****, so the truth is laid bare.
ok - but the test of time still needs to be played out on pdk-s.
still early days yet.
02-15-2015, 12:43 PM
#82
Three Wheelin'
Can echo this sentiment somewhat.
Having recently taken delivery of a performance car without a manual gearbox for the first time; I found it almost intimidating to try and replicate the type of performance I typically expected from manual boxes.
Thus, one is not better than the other; rather they are separate species with different mechanicals ultimately trying to achieve the same endpoint, both requiring specific input and a learning curve of output interpretation is present in both cases.
I like them both and look forward to my new RS and its challenges.
Having recently taken delivery of a performance car without a manual gearbox for the first time; I found it almost intimidating to try and replicate the type of performance I typically expected from manual boxes.
Thus, one is not better than the other; rather they are separate species with different mechanicals ultimately trying to achieve the same endpoint, both requiring specific input and a learning curve of output interpretation is present in both cases.
I like them both and look forward to my new RS and its challenges.
not endorsing anything. just for me.
fernando, drove one on track, ordered one
i drove chormium's, ordered one
carl drove chasens, waiting to buy one
chris drove one, waiting to buy one
anonymous with more RS/CGT than i do, bought 2
my tech NASA GTS3 champ, drove it. "that's fking crazy gearbox...."
andre, drove 991, not missing his well set up moton'd 7.2
chromium, never looking back
glen, ton's of GT/cup cars, never looking back
not saying it's end all be all. just saying it's really not that bad. and i would take it over H pattern. even at 1/10 i like it more.
fernando, drove one on track, ordered one
i drove chormium's, ordered one
carl drove chasens, waiting to buy one
chris drove one, waiting to buy one
anonymous with more RS/CGT than i do, bought 2
my tech NASA GTS3 champ, drove it. "that's fking crazy gearbox...."
andre, drove 991, not missing his well set up moton'd 7.2
chromium, never looking back
glen, ton's of GT/cup cars, never looking back
not saying it's end all be all. just saying it's really not that bad. and i would take it over H pattern. even at 1/10 i like it more.
02-15-2015, 02:08 PM
#83
Well Said! 
I drove the Cayman S at COTA and 991 GT3 at a local track, both are brilliant, but not rewarding or involving as compared to a manual.
I drove the Cayman S at COTA and 991 GT3 at a local track, both are brilliant, but not rewarding or involving as compared to a manual.
Porsche is the most profitable car manufacturer. Sports cars are (or at least were) their core business. The GT3 is the halo for loyal customers. There is clearly a demand (escalating 997 GT3 prices, frenzy over the GT4).
If struggling manufacturers (GM, Lotus, Jaguar) can develop two transmissions for their performance cars, certainly Porsche can.
If struggling manufacturers (GM, Lotus, Jaguar) can develop two transmissions for their performance cars, certainly Porsche can.
With the well-established enthusiast base who clearly desire a track-suitable 911 with a manual transmission I think it is a major mistake for Porsche to not offer a GT3 with a 6-speed. I consider myself fortunate to own a 997 GT3 and I hope I will be able to drive myself to the "Home" in it many years from now.
As massive a performer the 991 GT3 is, it doesn't speak to me. I want the involvement with the machine that the manual provides. If I was racing with my car of course I would need and want a PDK. I think it is unfortunate that Porsche is dictating to their customers what kind of car they can purchase. Let the other high-end sports car manufacturers offer only dual-clutches ~ by offering the choice Porsche would allow itself to be distanced from their competitors....
On a more technical level, my understanding is that the 991 PDK and 7-speed transmissions ultilize the same case and many of the same internal components. If true, how high could the costs of producing a 6-speed be for the GT3?
As massive a performer the 991 GT3 is, it doesn't speak to me. I want the involvement with the machine that the manual provides. If I was racing with my car of course I would need and want a PDK. I think it is unfortunate that Porsche is dictating to their customers what kind of car they can purchase. Let the other high-end sports car manufacturers offer only dual-clutches ~ by offering the choice Porsche would allow itself to be distanced from their competitors....
On a more technical level, my understanding is that the 991 PDK and 7-speed transmissions ultilize the same case and many of the same internal components. If true, how high could the costs of producing a 6-speed be for the GT3?
Last edited by TurboS; 02-15-2015 at 02:30 PM.
02-16-2015, 12:42 PM
#84
Obviously to each his own, I drove the 991 GT3 on the track and on the streets. Didn't like it. I still strongly feel that these GT cars are not real track cars, it is a marketing term. Real track cars do not have carpets or radios, deviant stitching, etc. They do not hold a passenger, and they do not have rubber bushings - anywhere. These cars are road cars, they are meant to be driven to work and taken to the track for fun. If you want speed, there are open wheel cars you can buy with 200 HP that will destroy any road going GT3. I have driven them, they are indeed sequential gearbox-ed. If I am going to drive at speeds above 150 mph, then I am not doing it in a GT3, it is done in a open wheel race car. GT3 are fun because you can shift your own gears, technology is not always an improvement. There are many stresses around now because, you know, technology. Whats next a GPS-guided self driven wheelchair? You know, for those who think walking is old school? Anyone notice (much to my surprise) how much higher 997 GT3 prices have climbed since last November? The general market wants manual, so a GT4 was made. But they want a GT3 manual.
Porsche made the 991 GT3 to win in the lap numbers game, the RS is the same.
Porsche made the 991 GT3 to win in the lap numbers game, the RS is the same.
02-17-2015, 05:00 AM
#85
think you have missed the point, yes you can get track only (radicial, formula ford etc) or more track oriented cars (BAC Mono Aeriel Atom etc) but people like the brand and the '911' handling trate- what mooty pointed out is that many who are very track focused have made the leap and seem to not be regrateful in any way- different yes, worse no way.
They will no doubt go through the whole lightening, cage, susspension mods, wheels etc same as they did with the 997's.
Do Porsche produce their cars for the road, hell yes, if you want track only- by a cup, they still cater for you. I don't think they have miss lead any one-they do the same marketing as BMW do for the M cars etc.... Selling a dream.
Don't forget probably 90% of GT's never see a track.
They will no doubt go through the whole lightening, cage, susspension mods, wheels etc same as they did with the 997's.
Do Porsche produce their cars for the road, hell yes, if you want track only- by a cup, they still cater for you. I don't think they have miss lead any one-they do the same marketing as BMW do for the M cars etc.... Selling a dream.
Don't forget probably 90% of GT's never see a track.
02-17-2015, 12:29 PM
#86
think you have missed the point, yes you can get track only (radicial, formula ford etc) or more track oriented cars (BAC Mono Aeriel Atom etc) but people like the brand and the '911' handling trate- what mooty pointed out is that many who are very track focused have made the leap and seem to not be regrateful in any way- different yes, worse no way.
They will no doubt go through the whole lightening, cage, susspension mods, wheels etc same as they did with the 997's.
Do Porsche produce their cars for the road, hell yes, if you want track only- by a cup, they still cater for you. I don't think they have miss lead any one-they do the same marketing as BMW do for the M cars etc.... Selling a dream.
Don't forget probably 90% of GT's never see a track.
They will no doubt go through the whole lightening, cage, susspension mods, wheels etc same as they did with the 997's.
Do Porsche produce their cars for the road, hell yes, if you want track only- by a cup, they still cater for you. I don't think they have miss lead any one-they do the same marketing as BMW do for the M cars etc.... Selling a dream.
Don't forget probably 90% of GT's never see a track.