DSC Sport

Welcome to the DSC Sport community!

Sounds like you have some sorting out to do. Don't hesitate to email, PM, or call with any questions.

- Jordan

User 52121

Just wondering if there's anything else I need to know? Overall, based on what I've read, it seems like it's a pretty plug-and-play system. I've got the accelerometer oriented correctly (now) and the ground wire attached (now) and it seems I've figured out how to switch modes (just the button and count the blinks).

Does PSM (PSM, not PASM) have any effect? If I unplug the yaw sensor to disable PSM, will that cause issues with the DSC Sport system (on a car like mine, where I am using the DSC accelerometer)?

Is there any easy way to tell that the system is working? A diagnostic mode or some other sure-fire way to tell, "Yup it's definitely working"...?

DSC Sport

Hi Omni,

DSC has no effect on PSM, and unplugging the yaw sensor to disable PSM should have no effect on DSC.

If the system isn't working (if there's a communication failure or faulty shocks) the system will resort to full stiff mode. There are also codes we can pull using the DSC tuning software. With regards to accelerometer, we can datalog or use seat-of-the-pants observations.

It may be a little late, but you should definitely consider starting a build thread on the car in the Cayman section. The DSC info could be very useful to some (and we'll be there to offer assistance), and by the sounds of it I'm sure there will be some other interesting projects involved with this build.

- Jordan

dbbarron

I have read through this forum and the DSC/TPC websites and am having a hard time finding comparative specifications on the Billstein Damptronic, Tractive DDA and stock PASM (say 997.2) dampers. For instance, response time, dynamic range, effective spring rates (due to active dampers), etc.

Does anyone have such data?

dbbarron

I have found some performance graphs for Billstein B16 (assume damptronic is on this platform and has the same adjustment range)

http://www.bilsteinus.com/uploads/tx...ro_7-10_12.pdf

and Tractive DDA:

http://www.tractivesuspension.com/pdf/Tractive_DDA.PDF

However I need assistance interpreting these graphs. They seem comparable on Rebound, but on compressive, Tractive appears to have a much wider range.

Am I interpreting this correctly? What is the practical relevance?

This does not show response time - does anyone have data on that (relative to the update speed of DSC or PASM controller).

db

TB993tt

That Bilstein graph is for the PSS10 which has the manual 10 clicks of adjustment, the PASM B16s will be different I would have thought.

I think it is difficult to learn much from graphs and numbers, I had B16 Damptronics on before and now have Tractives/DSC and the difference is VERY obvious mine is just a street car but is has to control a lot of torque. The Bilsteins were good but quite "hard" all the time in contrast the Tractive/DSC set up is incredibly supple when pottering around, it soaks up potholes with aplomb and means a daily driven 800hp with full solid links everywhere and Cup 2s is a perfectly civilised reality, even my Mrs noticed how much better the ride is.

Of course the party trick is when you decide to lean on it, the suspension instantly tautens and the chassis is super responsive and planted, it really is quite amazing. Driving is the only way to appreciate it.

dbbarron

The graphs do indicate a far larger range on the softer side for the Tractives.

dbbarron

In considering a DSC installation on my SPASM car (for primarily HPDE use), what disadvantages does the active system have relative to a more traditional n-way adjustable (damping) coilover system? Put another way, are there material advantages to the more traditional n-way adjustable coilover system over DSC type active system?

(Let's ignore potential complexity arguments)

db

Tom@TPC Racing

It has no disadvantage. It is a technology that offer to users that previously wasn't available. DSC stiffens the corner of the car only when it is needed to keep the car stable. When you're not leaning on the front end during braking or leaning on the outside during a high g corner there's no reason to keep that all 4 corner stiff. DSC makes the chassis fully dynamic, which is the direction all the higher end sportscars are heading. We are offering this technology as plug and play on applicable vehicles such as yours. Traditional manual adjustable shocks have to compromise by using the same static setting around the entire track. Many racers would love to have stiffer/softer setting for different corners and g-force levels.

dbbarron

Thank you for the concise response. I have a few questions if you don't mind.

For the stock PASM system, have you mapped the range of damping (i.e, output in ma) that the stock controller will send to the dampers compared to the range that the DSC controller is able to send (which appears to be the full hardware range of the dampers from looking at the software and other info on this forum)?

Same question for update rate from the stock controller v. the DSC controller?

I have PASM with the Sport/lowered suspension option (SPASM) which I believe has stiffer springs than regular PASM; is the same mapping used for both in the DSC controller?

I note that the only Tractive mapping on the download site is for the 991. Will the same map work (i.e., not just work but be the proper general map) on the 997 if I were to install the Tractives?

db

Ubermensch

Can you also clarify whether there is any hardware difference between versions? Can the firmware/software be updated for alternate models? One of your team was nice enough to clarify that the 987.2 and 997.2 boxes were the same and that with the proper downloads they could be interchangeable. Is that true for other models in the series (I.e. 7.2 turbos and gt3s).

DSC Sport

Sure,

All .2 987/997 - Same firmware and hardware
All .1 987/997 - Same firmware/hardware
All 997 Turbo - Same firmware/hardware as 9x7.2
All 991/981 - Same firmware/hardware

Stand Alone systems have their own firmware/hardware

PDTS (calibration files) files are interchangeable for all.

Tom@TPC Racing

Yes, of course we have. Our engineers did this at the very beginning to confirmed most of damping range on the shock is unused. We have covered this topic before on a number of different threads across this forum and other forums. Please excuse me for reciting this yet again, DSC controls full range of the shocks, or the range that users custom assign via DSC tuning software.

Focusing on DSC, DSC updates the control loop 1000x per second(1 kHz), ultimately this is overkill because stock shocks don't respond that fast.


Yes, DSC comes with the same base mapping since we and our users have experienced it to work very well universally. The stock sport springs and aftermarket lowering springs are only marginally stiffer so in most situations the shocks produce more resistance than the springs so no special mapping is necessary, unless there is a very particular damping characteristic that you're looking for in which case changes can be made via DSC tuning software.

PS- Since you referenced you have SPASM, I have assume your car is a 997.2 Carrera S or GTS. This particular thread is in GT2/GT3 forum, so you'll find the answers that are more relevant to your model in the 997 forum. There are many DSC users on the 997 forum who have lowering springs for all sorts with stellar reviews. Some of the users in the 997 forum have been sharing custom maps that they've made.

We have just started populating the DSC Sport website with maps. There will be more very soon. You could also contact us directly for map(s).

nwGTS

Tom, do you run anti sways on your race cars? If so why? Since your tractive and DSC setup could keep the car flat in turns electronically with input from the CAN yaw, pitch, roll sensors I'd think they'd be redundant, dead weight. Similar to McLaren's setup. I'd think DSC/tractive would be even better that cockpit adjustable sways when tracks have both bumpy and smooth sections.

Tom@TPC Racing

Yes we do. For a number of reasons: 1) racing class rules requirement, 2) besides, we already have the front-to-rear balance well established with bar settings and for the characteristic of the diff, 3)the DSC/Tractive products that we have developed and currently offer are focused for optimizing damping and vehicle weight transfer management in the form of a "bolt-on" coilover package intended for cars that have sway bar settings in the ideal range, "bolt-on" in the sense of not disturbing/removing surrounding items, 4) It is very useful to have another "layer" of chassis tuning via adjustable sway bars with ideal adjustment range for a particular vehicle to set basic front-to-rear balance. With our current system for the 997 chassis I view the bar adjustment as an outter layer of an onion for coarse tuning, whereas I view the damper tuning is the inner layer for fine tuning. Its hard to explain, when we do track testings sometimes the pro drivers request sway bar change while other times they request damper setting change solely based on the driver's personal preferences, 5)Sway bars, when adjusted well to the car, offer what we refer to as "platform", platform allows us to run the shocks at full soft at times relying only on stiffness of a slightly preloaded bars...platform stiffness feels different than damper stiffness, 5) Continuing on platform, the modern P cars are designed from the factory to have some level of platform stiffness. With the versatility of DSC/Tractive we can certainly run without bars for high performance street use and some level of track use. But for extreme track performance on these cars we need bars!

In my opinion, to truly be able to achieve extreme level track performance without bars a purposely designed chassis from ground up with integrated hydraulic system is necessary, like on the McLaren, see image below.

Please excuse me for describing the layout of this hi-tech system in the most basic term, its a large diameter damper on top of a damper...

At this point in time, I don't think its cost effective nor weight effective to add a separate hydraulic system on a 997. Sway bars do offer advantages on the 997 as stated above. Especially with 10+ years of successful racing history on the TPC 997 adjustable sway bars.