jenk12m

sometimes we arent as far off as you may think. did andrew ever drive your car by himself to see what he could get? he drove mine and i know he wasnt driving it like he would the brumos 59, but he came in said he wasnt holding to much back. he did a 34.3 on toyos in light traffic and then i did a 35.2. i know he can go faster but it may not be as far off as 4-5 seconds

ProCoach

^^THIS^^

wanna911

I don't believe him. I think he was holding a lot back. He's set most of the poles for Porsche's over the last two seasons in grand-am and that's with Leh on his team. Leh ran 1:31.6 in a bone stock 3.8 RS with a passenger on stock tires. That's almost a 1:29 with no one in the car. Your car should be faster than that one. Or at least as fast. Conditions were ideal too that day too. You can run a 1:34.2, I'd put money on that.

Plus in watching him drive my car on the same day, he was short shifting, not full throttle into the braking zones, down 10+ mph top end, easy on throttle on exit. I can tell because I know what it looks like in my car. He was certainly taking it easy, a bit more in my car than yours due to less laps, but still easy.

Like I've said, until someone comes within a second of Leh driving all out in their car, with data and video, I don't buy it. It does a coach no good to set a time you can't achieve, but I bet if you went and ran a 1:33, which the car is more than likely capable of, I bet he would have went faster than he did.

The job of the coach is not to max out the car, so I don't think it's accurate to assume that is what's being done when we get coaches. Even a benchmark lap does no good if it's out of your skill set, experience level or safe zone to achieve as a student.

When someone does a 1:31.6 in a 3.8 RS stock with no passenger, I will say that person is within 2 seconds of Leh. So far all of the cars are modded, and the ones with DOT tires still not within even 2 seconds.

Veloce Raptor

BINGO

deputydog95

I was initially really surprised about their times. However after giving it some thought, they're running 218's in warmer weather on Hoosiers. Now put the most expensive race tires you can buy for a street car into the mix, crisp weather, and some talent.... Not as surprised now. They were both very fast before running full race slicks.

With that being said I wouldn't want to write a track insurance policy for either of them

TRAKCAR

Now I'm curious about my data..
I only have the one clean lap of the last session.

I watched the video's of Eddie again, looks like me in FF.
I dont see a difference in our driving line.
Different shifting speed and 2nd gear in T7 (I think 3rd would be faster on slicks for Eddie even with his PDK arm) Less braking required is nice on slicks, stab and turn :-) Eddie seems busier, but normal at that speed I think? Crisper downshifts, i really struggle with heel n toe after a few laps with very thin brake pads, when they are newer no problem.

jenk12m

My car is the most stock car out of the whole DE CUP that has been to road Atl. Randy has done consistent low 34's. Peter, Juan, grady and Clarke have done 33's maybe even a 32 from grady and Clarke I believe. I thought leh was on Hoosiers when he did that 31.9 or so I've heard

TRAKCAR

The mighty stockish 4.0 will do a 31 on R6 no problem. 5th. gear down the esses to T5 wheee...

ProCoach

+1,000,000

First, there is NO car that can't be driven faster by someone else. Period. That's not the issue, IMO, it's constructing objective, data-driven strategies and communicating them to the client that is the primary job of the pro coach.

It's the coach's job to help YOU go faster.

I know what Andrew/Leh/Patrick/Andy/Spencer data looks like. I also know what they do and how they do it that makes them faster than most drovers and, most importantly, I know how to construct plans and strategies that mere mortals can use to DO THE SAME THING as "those who are pros" do.

I know how to communicate that to mere mortals so it sticks, if not at that event, in future events. While the track knowledge required for competence to shine at particular tracks may be local, the concepts of going fast are global. Proper PRO coaches like VR, Seth and few others do this, although in differing levels of detail, different depths of data analysis and from differing perspectives... It ain't rocket science.

When you have the data of Leh doing a 1:31.4 with a passenger, that's valid. If you speculate that "he would do a 1:29 on his own," that's possible, perhaps even likely. But it's not a valid observation, just a guess. People throw around lap times like they're water, but like RAD says, if there's no data, it didn't happen.

Second, lap times are dependent on a variety of factors outside the driver's control. Tires, temperature, humidity, track conditions, trash and fluids from catastrophic failures or a "green" track from a recent rain ALL contribute to a variability that makes it important for people NOT to become "prisoners" to a particular target lap time.

What IS in control of the driver is proper execution of fundamental skills, a reduction of ANY questions about where to place the car and where it should be when particular control inputs are executed. Do all that, and you're as fast as they are...

ProCoach

We'll have to work together for us to find out more.

I just guarantee that there is a WHOLE lot more there...

Obviously, many have the same curiosity. Especially those who are quicker.

My inbox is full of inquiries from some very quick guys, but the place to do it (my program) is at the race track when you can do something about what I see.

TRAKCAR

Right, and when you have only one lap, the opening lap and the TBL is 1.5 seconds lower when normally you can click of laps within a tenth. it is not hard to extrapolate that you can do about a second better with a few more laps.

Than there is the risk apetite factor. I dont ever want to put the CF fenders of the pretty 4.0 as close to the wall as Clarke puts his just about every lap..

GT3DE

I never saw a wall. Are there walls at Sebring?

M3EvoBR

I was moving, right ??? lol
Great meeting you too, let me know once you're back.

Thank you for your input. I know I have a lot to learn, and a lot of time to be gained. My second time out in this car with slicks, and only my first with fresh ones, so I still need to adjust my speeds.

Thanks Dave, much appreciate it. I'm trying .... is all I can do.

M3EvoBR

I would love to have a goal set in data. I like the challenge and the thrill to go for a achievement and accomplish it. It's rewarding.
You were right about the traffic. One lap not so busy and only one on Sunday, that's all I got.
Also you like your car set up in a different way, and the no diff factor, also changes the characteristics of the car. I can't deal with a pushy thing, no problem driving them a little on the touchy side, and be able to use the throttle or not to steer the car.

ProCoach

Beautiful. Now you're cooking with gas!

Two ways to do that, actually three. The last of which is the least valuable, IMO.

1) Establish the "tight group" of times when you're driving at a high level and are very consistent. Then, plot the actual and then TBL lap and see where the difference is. Then, focus on those areas (generally not more than two or three).

2) Know what "optimum" skill execution looks like on the data.

THIS is why you don't need Chris, Nigel or anyone else to "set a time" to compare to. If you execute properly, then the data will look like it. Most folks' data is far from optimal... This is where I am most often a resource, at the track.

More often than not (which is what I'm seeing in the data you sent me), it's a result of imperfect, irregular and erratic basic skills execution, a lack of discipline or a lack of patience, not a lack of "*****." If you're made aware of what skill set you need to focus on, how to control your entry speed and get the car turned and "clean it up," you go faster with less risk and less drama. Oh, and with less effort, too.

Working with Andrew Z last week, we got him doing :11 flat in a car he has little time in, at a track he's never been to, in a short period of time, with priorities he can use at every other track, in every other car he drives. Simply by zeroing in on where his data was variating from optimal skills execution. THIS IS WHAT IS COOL!

3) Have somebody (Leh, Andrew, Patrick) do a "hell ride." Problem with that is that they aren't you. And their risk/benefit is difference, their confidence and their knowledge and comfort foundation is completely different.

This is why you need to look at what you're doing and break it down in the most granular operational parameters. Then optimize all the little pieces and put it together. Lo and behold, you're fast and within acceptable risk/benefit ratios. For you...