Hoosier R6 longevity & cost vs R compound street tire AT THE TRACK
03-21-2012, 03:38 PM
#31
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R6 are cheaper to run than MPSC in my experience with 996 GT3, 997 GT3 RS and Fiat.
- Michelin doesn't give me free tires for autocrossing, Hoosier does
- Michelin doesn't give me free tires for tracking, Hoosier does
- I get 16 HC out of R6, no flipping, no swapping sides, I agree they could last longer than 16 HC if I flip them and swap them, but I don't seem to care, because even at 16HC they are still cheaper than MPSC.
- I get 8 fast HC out of A6, but I keep using them if I don't have a stock of new A6.
10 days ago I ran the Time Trials at Homestead with NASA, day one strictly on MPSC (265/345) with just 6 HC, day 2 on Hoosier A6 with 10 HC. The lap time difference was almost 4 seconds, and given the traffic problems when I ran A6 and based on data, the lap time difference was close to 5 seconds.
Currently the MPSC are at 11 HC and the A6 at 15 HC, the A6 are still very fast while the MPCS are not far from finding themselves in the garbage can.
I run R6 and A6 (Coxster and Fiat have similar weight and f/r distribution) way below 30 psi hot, being doing that for ages. I haven't seen cords on my A6/R6 ever, been running these tires since 2006.
With NASA we get a discount on Hoosiers. With NASA and SCCA we get free Hoosiers.
Hoosiers are cheaper to run than any R-comp.
Whoever calls cheating on DE Cup drivers running Hoosiers R6/A6 has either:
a) Not enough skills to drive on Hoosiers
b) Not enough knowledge about tires
c) Have never driven on Racing slicks
d) Afraid of marginal lap time improvements on Hoosiers
d) All of the above
- Michelin doesn't give me free tires for autocrossing, Hoosier does
- Michelin doesn't give me free tires for tracking, Hoosier does
- I get 16 HC out of R6, no flipping, no swapping sides, I agree they could last longer than 16 HC if I flip them and swap them, but I don't seem to care, because even at 16HC they are still cheaper than MPSC.
- I get 8 fast HC out of A6, but I keep using them if I don't have a stock of new A6.
10 days ago I ran the Time Trials at Homestead with NASA, day one strictly on MPSC (265/345) with just 6 HC, day 2 on Hoosier A6 with 10 HC. The lap time difference was almost 4 seconds, and given the traffic problems when I ran A6 and based on data, the lap time difference was close to 5 seconds.
Currently the MPSC are at 11 HC and the A6 at 15 HC, the A6 are still very fast while the MPCS are not far from finding themselves in the garbage can.
I run R6 and A6 (Coxster and Fiat have similar weight and f/r distribution) way below 30 psi hot, being doing that for ages. I haven't seen cords on my A6/R6 ever, been running these tires since 2006.
With NASA we get a discount on Hoosiers. With NASA and SCCA we get free Hoosiers.
Hoosiers are cheaper to run than any R-comp.
Whoever calls cheating on DE Cup drivers running Hoosiers R6/A6 has either:
a) Not enough skills to drive on Hoosiers
b) Not enough knowledge about tires
c) Have never driven on Racing slicks
d) Afraid of marginal lap time improvements on Hoosiers
d) All of the above
03-21-2012, 03:43 PM
#32
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OK not cheating, they just choose to pay more to go a few seconds faster over Toyo's.
Some of the guys running Michelins do not want to drive to the track on Hoosiers.
BTW, Toyo gives away tires as NASA right?
Some of the guys running Michelins do not want to drive to the track on Hoosiers.
BTW, Toyo gives away tires as NASA right?
03-21-2012, 03:43 PM
#33
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If you pre-bake the Hooters, they will reward you with a tiny bit of extra grip in the first session and then maybe a whole day of extra life. I find three days and there's a lack of meat left in the rears anyway. I call it six sessions per day. So put them on for one session, as per instructions, put them in the trailer for at least two days, preferably a week, then they'll give three days of fun, maybe a forth day of "why not shred these" if the opportunity presents itself.
03-21-2012, 03:46 PM
#34
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Agree with CGT above regarding ice pedal. Ran 235/30/19 and 315/30/19 R6s on my '11 GT3 and ice pedal happened way too frequently for me (I.e. more than once a day). Scary. R6 are great wrt stickiness but there was no way I could get more than 12-14 HC out of them. I tried. Still like the Hoosiers though, MPSC are more reliable for me but not quite as fast.
03-21-2012, 03:53 PM
#36
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Clarke trying to justify cheating, LOL.
Just kidding, thanks for keeping track and posting here Clarke, tires are the most expensive part of running DE, so we are all keen to learn how to manage them.
I have run R6 255/40/18 and 345/35/18 without any rubbing.
They wear very good, much less of that inside wear we see on RA1's. Hoosiers cord right down the midle with -2.5 all around.
R6 is probably where we are going once the RA1's are gone.
For now we can't beat the $165.00ea 335 RA1's. We get about 4 days out of them, 6 if we flip them a couple of times. We also have to shave them $20.00 per tire.
Flipping tires on the rim is also not free for me. I want it done right at a race shop that check over the 3 piece BBS, balanced and good weights that don't fall off, but I agree they should be flipped on the rim after 2 track days, or about 8 HC ideally, but often I wait 4 days and only move wheels side to side. It is not enough, sometime I will cord on on the inside on day 4, plent of wear bar left. But at $165.00ea, that is OK. This is with -1.7 rear camber only. Front -2.5, even wear on both Toyo and R6.
Seems like we wear out about 2:1 R:F
-Still plenty of 335 RA1 around and they fit all RS. The fronts are gone, once our stash is gone, we will have to buy 245 Nitto NT01 (No need to shave), some are already running this. Nitto and RA1 have the same rubber, same factory I guess. The Nitto's are about $225.00ea
So cost for 4x RA1 + 2x Nitto = +/- $750 + $475 + 2 x rear flip $100.00 = $1325 for total of 8-12 days, 4 HC each. they are fast till they cord, the front HC out after about 12 days so ususlly replace them, but they have rubber left.
-When I ran R6 they were wearing much more even. And this was with -2.5 camber! I can see that an R6 rears will last us up to 6 days, but the rires are about $400.00 and need to be flipped 2x that is another $100.00.
So cost for 4x R6 rear and 2x R6 front = +/- $1600 + $700 + 4 x Rear flip 200 = $2500 for total of 8-12 days, 4 HC each.
Keep us posted!
Just kidding, thanks for keeping track and posting here Clarke, tires are the most expensive part of running DE, so we are all keen to learn how to manage them.
I have run R6 255/40/18 and 345/35/18 without any rubbing.
They wear very good, much less of that inside wear we see on RA1's. Hoosiers cord right down the midle with -2.5 all around.
R6 is probably where we are going once the RA1's are gone.
For now we can't beat the $165.00ea 335 RA1's. We get about 4 days out of them, 6 if we flip them a couple of times. We also have to shave them $20.00 per tire.
Flipping tires on the rim is also not free for me. I want it done right at a race shop that check over the 3 piece BBS, balanced and good weights that don't fall off, but I agree they should be flipped on the rim after 2 track days, or about 8 HC ideally, but often I wait 4 days and only move wheels side to side. It is not enough, sometime I will cord on on the inside on day 4, plent of wear bar left. But at $165.00ea, that is OK. This is with -1.7 rear camber only. Front -2.5, even wear on both Toyo and R6.
Seems like we wear out about 2:1 R:F
-Still plenty of 335 RA1 around and they fit all RS. The fronts are gone, once our stash is gone, we will have to buy 245 Nitto NT01 (No need to shave), some are already running this. Nitto and RA1 have the same rubber, same factory I guess. The Nitto's are about $225.00ea
So cost for 4x RA1 + 2x Nitto = +/- $750 + $475 + 2 x rear flip $100.00 = $1325 for total of 8-12 days, 4 HC each. they are fast till they cord, the front HC out after about 12 days so ususlly replace them, but they have rubber left.
-When I ran R6 they were wearing much more even. And this was with -2.5 camber! I can see that an R6 rears will last us up to 6 days, but the rires are about $400.00 and need to be flipped 2x that is another $100.00.
So cost for 4x R6 rear and 2x R6 front = +/- $1600 + $700 + 4 x Rear flip 200 = $2500 for total of 8-12 days, 4 HC each.
Keep us posted!
RA1 are long lasting, they are consistent until they cord, they can be driven on the streets, they cord before being heat cycled out. My all-time all-purpose favorite tires, and I'm looking forward to run them again in the next couple of months.
Unfortunately, RA1 are in short supply.
03-21-2012, 04:19 PM
#37
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Meanwhile, Hoosier Tires will award you 2 free tires if you have 5 drivers in class or more per day, whether at Regional or National Championship level, and up to 4 tires per weekend, whether TT or Club Racing.
03-21-2012, 04:34 PM
#39
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03-21-2012, 04:59 PM
#40
What about alignment and springs/shocks? Any suggestions for set-up?
Again, its a base gt3, not RS. I agree that MPSC is not the best, they annoy me, but they are dramatically cheaper than Corsa's, Trofeos are just stupid, and at this moment I still consider R6 to be out of reach.
Incidentally, woudl R6 survive a 10 mile drive to the track? We don't get rain and likelihood of getting pulled over for tires is zero over here.
03-21-2012, 05:05 PM
#41
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Why is Clark trying to economize on tires? Isn't he the guy who just bought a second GT3 to keep near Sebring? 
I still don't see how it's possible to use Hoosiers effectively for more than 20 hc's. Even hoosier says they are no good after 16 or so if you don't heat cycle them initially. Of course they are in the business of selling tires...
I'm not saying you can't drive on them, but the past 3-4 or so sets I've gone through have been super slippery despite having adequate tread.
I still prefer the RA1. I feel like its only about a second (in my car w my setup) faster than the hoosiers and you can keep swapping rears while running the fronts to death.
I get ice mode with the hoosiers. Only on hard high speed long stops. Not a big deal. Lift and reapply.
I still don't see how it's possible to use Hoosiers effectively for more than 20 hc's. Even hoosier says they are no good after 16 or so if you don't heat cycle them initially. Of course they are in the business of selling tires...
I'm not saying you can't drive on them, but the past 3-4 or so sets I've gone through have been super slippery despite having adequate tread.
I still prefer the RA1. I feel like its only about a second (in my car w my setup) faster than the hoosiers and you can keep swapping rears while running the fronts to death.
I get ice mode with the hoosiers. Only on hard high speed long stops. Not a big deal. Lift and reapply.
03-21-2012, 05:06 PM
#42
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I have 315 R6 on my .2 factory wheel right now. First time running them at VIR last weekend, loved em. I don't think the tires would come up to temp on street for only 10 miles so you'd probably be fine
03-21-2012, 05:26 PM
#43
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Hoosier R6 vs. Shaved RA1, RA1 are cheaper to run even at the official retail price, not the heavily discounted price from the 2007 tires still around.
RA1 are long lasting, they are consistent until they cord, they can be driven on the streets, they cord before being heat cycled out. My all-time all-purpose favorite tires, and I'm looking forward to run them again in the next couple of months.
Unfortunately, RA1 are in short supply.
RA1 are long lasting, they are consistent until they cord, they can be driven on the streets, they cord before being heat cycled out. My all-time all-purpose favorite tires, and I'm looking forward to run them again in the next couple of months.
Unfortunately, RA1 are in short supply.
03-21-2012, 05:31 PM
#45
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So 315's fit the rears then.
What about alignment and springs/shocks? Any suggestions for set-up?
Again, its a base gt3, not RS. I agree that MPSC is not the best, they annoy me, but they are dramatically cheaper than Corsa's, Trofeos are just stupid, and at this moment I still consider R6 to be out of reach.
Incidentally, woudl R6 survive a 10 mile drive to the track? We don't get rain and likelihood of getting pulled over for tires is zero over here.
What about alignment and springs/shocks? Any suggestions for set-up?
Again, its a base gt3, not RS. I agree that MPSC is not the best, they annoy me, but they are dramatically cheaper than Corsa's, Trofeos are just stupid, and at this moment I still consider R6 to be out of reach.
Incidentally, woudl R6 survive a 10 mile drive to the track? We don't get rain and likelihood of getting pulled over for tires is zero over here.
Stock springs and stock shocks are fine with Hoosiers. I ran Michelin Slicks (way much more grip a Gs than Hoosier R6) with stock shocks and springs in my 2007 GT3 RS, no bump stops, not handling issues either.
Ice Mode is a matter of multiple factors, not just Hoosier tires, let's stop at creating a false statement that Hoosier cause Ice Mode. There are a multitude of Club Racers running Porsches on Hoosiers with the street ABS. Ice Mode is present in many other cars, not just Porsches, and there are ways around it.
R6 survive way more than a 10 mile drive to the track. I once put over 800 street miles on a set of the softer A6. Just stay away from rain, or in case of rain slow down enough for the weight of the car to avoid hydro-planning. Just don't overdrive them on the way to/from the track, easy driving to avoid an extra or 2 extra heat cycles.