GT3DE

This thread is about running on the TRACK - nothing to do with street driving.

I get some ribbing for running Hoosier R6 on my 2010 GT3 (non-RS). Seems this is cheating. lol
Yes, they are faster than R compound street tires.
But are they more expensive to run than the R compound street tires?

The assumptions I have heard:
* expensive
* heat cycle out quickly, major fall-off of grip
* wear out fast
* must be run at 36 lbs.

I am doing an experiment with my 2010 GT3 running 18" Hooiser R6 on BBS wheels. Mostly doing this at Sebring with 2 days of Road Atlanta in the mix. So far I am over 20 heat cycles (HC). Exact numbers are in notes in trailer in FL. I am planning on running these to 30 and see what happens - and report here.

Assumption buster:
* at 30 HC, not expensive (at 12-15 HC, yes they would have been - but DOUBLE the HC is HALF the cost)
* yes, these R6 do fall off with each HC, but so far at 20+ HC these are still FASTER than new R compound street tires. Do they feel as good as when new? of course not. Don't let the feeling of the new tires seduce you into thinking you always need new tires. Learn to run with older tires. Even at 20+ these are still way faster then R compound street tires.
* With proper tire management these do not wear out. At over 20 HC I still am showing wearbars - and they are even. Everyday and sometimes twice a day I switch tires/wheels left/right on the car. After 2 track days I flip the tires on the rims. All this work keeps the tires from wearing more on one edge than the other. I almost never see anyone else doing this to their tires. Proper tire management also means not buzzing the tires in turns or on acceleration (for those that know me, this is the hardest part for me as I like to put the hammer down).
* Pressures. 30 lbs. HOT (as measured after at least 4 laps and on pit road with no cool down time). Yes, only 30. This keeps the tire softer, less rigid and less prone to wear. Do they feel different? yes, they feel squishy if you are used to 36 (which to me 36 feels like they are sliding on ice once they get hot).

I take no credit for this scheme. I learned all of this from experienced RACERS over the last 13 years about proper tire pressures -- 30 lbs.
Most recently I had it all wrapped up together for me by Gavin at the 48. Gavin explained proper tire management (switching left/right, flipping, no buzzing) for long-term wear and reiterated for me the 30 lbs pressure. FWIW Gavin was on HC 50+ at the 48.

This is an ongoing experiment for me to try to get to HC 30 (or more). Depending on how many runs I get this weekend at Chin/Sebring, I could reach HC 30. I will report any and all tire issues here in this thread.

Remember that the goal here is to 1) be faster than R compound street tires and 2) be same cost or cheaper than R compound street tire.

BBMGT3

Nice write up. Shame R6 don't fit on 19's... would have switched to them by now.

GT3DE

but they do make 19" tires

http://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm

Item
Number Tire Size Tread
Pattern Tread
Width Approx.
Dia
Circ Recom.
Rim Measured
Rim * Section
Width A6
AutoCross R6
Road Race
46300 P185/60ZR13 E 6.9" 21.7" 68.2" 6-7" 6.0" 7.8" X
46305 P205/60ZR13 E 8.0" 22.8" 71.7" 5.5-7.5" 6.0" 8.8" X
46307 P225/45ZR13 E 8.5" 20.9" 65.8" 7-8.5" 7.5" 9.3" X X
46310 P225/50ZR13 E 8.5" 21.9" 69.0" 6-8" 7.0" 9.4" X X
46320 P255/40ZR13 E 9.5" 20.9" 65.6" 8.5-10" 9.0" 10.5" X
46405 P205/55ZR14 E 8.1" 22.8" 71.6" 5.5-7.5" 7.0" 9.1" X X
46410 P205/60ZR14 E 7.8" 23.6" 74.2" 7-8" 6.0" 8.2" X
46415 P225/50ZR14 E 8.5" 22.9" 72.0" 6-8" 7.0" 9.4" X X
46500 P205/50ZR15 E 8.0" 22.8" 71.7" 5.5-7.5" 6.5" 8.7" X X
46500 P205/50ZR15 SM6 E 8.0" 22.8" 71.7" 5.5-7.5" 6.5" 8.7" X
46505 P215/60ZR15 E 8.3" 25.2" 79.1" 6-7.5" 7.0" 9.2" X
46510 P225/45ZR15 E 9.0" 22.9" 72.0" 7-8.5" 7.5" 9.8" X X
46515 P225/50ZR15 E 8.8" 23.8" 74.8" 6-8" 7.0" 9.8" X
46525 P245/50ZR15 E 9.2" 24.8" 78.0" 7-8.5" 7.5" 10.1" X
46535 P275/35ZR15 E 10.1" 23.0" 72.2" 9-11.0" 9.5" 10.8" X X
46540 P275/50ZR15 E 10.0" 25.5" 80.0" 7.5-9.5" 8.0" 10.8" X
46600 P205/45ZR16 E 8.0" 22.8" 71.7" 6.5-7.5" 7.0" 8.7" X X
46610 P225/50ZR16 E 9.0" 24.7" 77.6" 6-8" 7.0" 9.5" X X
46615 P245/45ZR16 E 9.2" 24.7" 77.7" 7.5-9" 8.0" 10.1" X X
46620 P255/50ZR16 E 9.4" 26.2" 82.2" 7-9" 8.0" 10.5" X X
46630 P275/45ZR16 E 10.3" 25.6" 80.5" 8.5-10" 9.0" 11.2" X X
46700 P205/40ZR17 E 7.0" 23.8" 74.8" 7-8" 8.0" 8.5" X
46705 P225/40ZR17 E 8.9" 23.8" 74.5" 7-9" 7.5" 9.8" X X
46710 P225/45ZR17 E 8.8" 24.7" 77.7" 7-8.5" 7.5" 9.7" X X
46715 P245/40ZR17 E 9.3" 24.5" 77.0" 8.0-9.5" 8.5" 10.0" X X
46720 P245/45ZR17 E 9.4" 25.7" 80.7" 7.5-9" 8.0" 9.9" X
46725 P255/45ZR17 E 9.7" 26.2" 82.2" 8-9.5" 9.0" 10.8" X
46730 P275/40ZR17 E 10.3" 25.5" 80.1" 9-11" 9.5" 11.0" X X
46733 P295/35ZR17 E 10.8" 25.3" 79.5" 9.5-11" 10.0" 11.6" X X
46735 P315/35ZR17 E 11.4" 25.6" 80.4" 11-12" 11.0" 12.6" X X
46740 P335/35ZR17 E 12.9" 25.6" 80.5" 11-13" 12.0" 13.6" X X
46810 P225/40ZR18 E 8.8" 24.8" 77.8" 7.5-9" 8.0" 9.5" X X
46820 P245/35ZR18 E 9.1" 24.7" 77.7" 8-9.5" 8.5" 9.8" X X
46825 P245/40ZR18 E 9.3" 25.7" 80.6" 8-9.5" 8.5" 10.5" X X
46830 P255/40ZR18 E 9.8" 26.2" 82.1" 8.5-10" 9.0" 10.6" X
46832 P255/35ZR18 E 10.3" 24.8" 77.8" 8.5-10" 9.0" 10.8" X X
46836 P275/35ZR18 E 10.3" 25.5" 80.2" 9-11" 9.5" 10.9" X X
46840 P285/30ZR18 E 10.9" 24.9" 78.1" 10-11" 10.0" 11.5" X X
46843 P295/30ZR18 E 10.8" 25.3" 79.5" 9.5-11" 10.0" 11.6" X X
46844 P295/40ZR18 E 10.5" 27.2" 85.6" 10-12" 11.0" 12.4" X X
46846 P315/30ZR18 E 11.8" 25.6" 80.5" 11-12" 11.0" 12.5" X X
46847 P315/40ZR18 E 11.3" 27.3" 85.7" 11-12" 12" 13.2" X
46850 P335/30ZR18 E 12.8" 25.6" 80.5" 12-13" 12.0" 13.5" X X
46855 P345/35ZR18 E 13.2" 26.8" 84.2" 11-13" 12.0" 13.9" X X
46915 P235/35ZR19 E 9.25" 25.6" 80.5" 8.0-9.5" 9.0" 10.2" X X
46925 P265/35ZR19 E 9.6" 26.2" 82.25" 9-10" 9.0" 10.4" X X
46935 P295/30ZR19 E 10.4" 26.1" 82.1" 10-12" 10.0" 11.5" X X
46936 P295/35ZR19 E 10.1" 27.3" 85.9" 10-12" 10.0" 11.5" X X
46937 P315/30ZR19 E 12.0" 26.1" 82.2" 11-12" 11.0" 12.5" X X
46938 P315/35ZR19 E 11.3" 27.3" 85.7" 11-12" 12" 13.2" X
46940 P315/40ZR19 E 11.3" 28.9" 90.7" 11-12" 11.0" 12.9" X
46945 P325/30ZR19 E 12.2" 26.8" 84.1" 12-13" 13.0" 13.6" X X
46950 P345/30ZR19 E 13.0" 26.8" 84.3" 12-13" 13.0" 14.1" X X

BBMGT3

I'm in a 997.1, so I need 305/30/19 for the rear, which is the only size they don't seem to make.

GT3DE

I thought that I had heard guys running the 315 on those cars. 10mm = 0.4 inches. That is 0.2 inches each side of tire wider. Wouldn't that still fit?

BBMGT3

^^ no idea! But until someone chimes in with 1st hand experience I won't risk it.

Plus, wouldn't I need to change springs? Or can OEM springs handle R6?

930man

i ran slicks on OEM set up... was fine

930man

i am almost certain on the wide body they fit

GT3DE

I and lots of others run OEM spring/shocks with R6. These cars are made for the track! But you will need to do a track setup/alignment (camber, toe, etc.). Lots of shops do track setups. I run 3 in front, 2.5ish in rear.

Chassis Setup Recommendations (from Hoosier website)
For optimum performance the Hoosier P-Metric radial tires require about 3 degrees of camber. There will be a trade off in maximum performance to maximize wear. Generally, 1/2 degrees less than optimum will result in the best compromise for wear and speed. Less than 2.5 degrees can result in excessive wear on the shoulder junction.

deputydog95

I don't know how Gavin does it, but I get to 20 and they are worse than snow tires.....

According to Hoosier, if you break them in during a very progressive session and let them sit for at 24-48 hours, you will greatly extend their life. I have never tried that as I only have one set of track wheels.

In my experience (3 or 4 sets of R6's), after 12 they get much slower. And after 16 they fall below the avg r compound. After 20 it feels like you are driving on vaseline. I tried to run at set at Nola with 20 hc's and watched my times get lower and lower each lap. Probably not totally fair as Nola had very limited grip due to it being brand new. One thing that is deceptive about the hoosiers is that there can be plenty of tread, but chemically they don't have much stick. I've never corded a set... And yes, I flip them regularly too.

I agree that they run better at 30. It's a good pressure. My tires usually heat up 9-10 psi. I wouldn't come out at 20 though. I would come out at 25, do some laps and bleed down to desired temp. Yeah, you'll eat a bit of time in your first session of the day but I don't think it's a good idea to run them that cold even if you are going easy.

Anybody who's seen gavin's car (race car witch license plates) knows it's lighter than most and his suspension is far from stock, which I'm guessing contributes to his tire longevity. I'm still baffled though as even the RA1 crew doesn't get more than 16-20 out of their rears before they are corded. Now I just run them till they aren't fun anymore and dump them in the garbage. Personally I don't see myself ever getting more than 20 HC's out of them with my current setup and driving style.

Red Bear

Nice write up Clarke. Currently I am running the MPSC which cost 200.00 more than a set of Hoosiers on 19" wheels and they last six days at Sebring. Can already tell with the math the Hoosier flipping and flopping may be more economical direction. Thinking about picking up a set in Road Atlanta this weekend and do my own test as well. Great post!

Veloce Raptor

Clarke, you and I have already had this conversation, and I agree. I run the Hankook Z214 C51 compound (a direct R6 competitor) on my M3, and I run them SOFT too. Typically start (depending on track & weather) around 24 front, 22 rear, and they are awesome and last well north of 24 cycles. Agree not to let perceived "feel" distract from whether the performance is still there. The only challenge here is that flipping them on the rim can be a real PITA at the track.

See you, Sly, and Grady manana!

BBMGT3

Am not in a RS, just straight 997.1 GT3.

Am running a track alignment, but if I switch to Hoosier I would need to shim the front to get more than 2.2 camber. Am currently running 2.2 in the front and 2.5 in the rear.

Anyone tried R6 on a 997.1 with 19" wheels? Normal fitment?

mdrums

I'm on my 1st set of MPSC, with 1 day at Sebring and 2 days at Homestead. The Sebring day has a drive over and drive back type of heat cycle. Right now I'm at 15 heat cycles on the MPSC I believe.

Do MPCS heat cycle out or just wear out? From looking at the tread my guess is that they probably have about 3-4 DE days left.

I also feel that the Toyo R888 I use to run on have more grip but the MPSC were brand new on my 1st Sebring day and I was 2 sec slower than my best R888 time. R888's (Rears) last me 4-5 days at Sebring and that is driving to the track on them...98 miles each way. We will see this weekend now that my MPSC are broken in.

Thanks for the write up Clarke, will be interested in your findings.

rmag

Clarke trying to save money...lol