GT3 RS 4.0 vs. GT3/RS
02-11-2012, 04:08 AM
#1
GT3 RS 4.0 vs. GT3/RS
Has anyone moved from a GT3 or GT3 RS to a GT3 RS 4.0? I'd like to get an opinion on whether it's worth trading my current GT3 for the GT3 RS 4.0. I get to the track 4-5 times per year but also use my car as a street vehicle, although not as a daily driver.
Is the 4.0 worth the price differential of the additional $50-75K? Is it driveable on the street or is it predominantly for the track?
My other option is a 458 Italia or an MP4-12C. Would appreciate any comparison or thoughts on those as well
Thanks.
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Is the 4.0 worth the price differential of the additional $50-75K? Is it driveable on the street or is it predominantly for the track?
My other option is a 458 Italia or an MP4-12C. Would appreciate any comparison or thoughts on those as well
Thanks.
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02-11-2012, 04:15 AM
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Has anyone moved from a GT3 or GT3 RS to a GT3 RS 4.0? I'd like to get an opinion on whether it's worth trading my current GT3 for the GT3 RS 4.0. I get to the track 4-5 times per year but also use my car as a street vehicle, although not as a daily driver.
Is the 4.0 worth the price differential of the additional $50-75K? Is it driveable on the street or is it predominantly for the track?
My other option is a 458 Italia or an MP4-12C. Would appreciate any comparison or thoughts on those as well
Thanks.
__________________
Is the 4.0 worth the price differential of the additional $50-75K? Is it driveable on the street or is it predominantly for the track?
My other option is a 458 Italia or an MP4-12C. Would appreciate any comparison or thoughts on those as well
Thanks.
__________________
02-11-2012, 05:01 AM
#3
My track days are for fun. Nothing wrong with my car but it looks like I could get an RS 4.0 so I wanted to see if it anyone has experience with a 4.0. I read an article in Excellence magazine that said the GT3 RS 4.0 is awesome but not worth the price differential relative to the GT3 RS.
02-11-2012, 06:06 AM
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My track days are for fun. Nothing wrong with my car but it looks like I could get an RS 4.0 so I wanted to see if it anyone has experience with a 4.0. I read an article in Excellence magazine that said the GT3 RS 4.0 is awesome but not worth the price differential relative to the GT3 RS.
02-11-2012, 11:13 AM
#5
I think it's an individual decision on whether the upgrade is "worth it" or not. I think it depends on what you're looking for. I had a 997.1 GT3, a 997.2 RS (3.8), and now a 4.0. Without a doubt there are differences between all of them. The change from the GT3 to the RS was a bigger jump than from the 3.8 to the 4.0. In general the GT3 felt softer than the RS. The RS had better power, better steering, better brakes, felt tighter, and sounded better. The move from the 3.8 to the 4.0 isn't as big of a jump IMO. The biggest difference is the extra power, at least based on my experience so far (I only managed to get 300 or 400 miles on the 4.0 before the snows came!). Especially on the low end; the 4.0 pulls harder. I haven't noticed any significant differences in handling between it and the 3.8 so far, but like I said I haven't had the opportunity to push the car. Plus I think it's difficult to really pick up on subtle differences unless you can drive the cars back to back, which I didn't get to do (traded the 3.8 for 4.0). The sound of the 4.0 is also much different than that of the 3.8. Much lower exhaust note, more angry sounding. And surprisingly, much quieter so far. I expect that will change as the exhaust gets more time on it 
. And I expect the power difference will become more noticeable as the engine gets more miles on it. Based on past experience, these motors seems to open up around 1200 miles or so.
If you're doing track days, I have no doubt the 4.0 will turn faster lap times than the 3.8. On the street, I think in terms of drivability, comfort, etc. they're very comparable. The extra power in the 4.0 is noticeable, but obviously it's difficult to find opportunities to use all of it. I have a hunch most "normal" people would say it would be crazy to pay the difference to upgrade . Then again, most "normal" people would also probably say that it's crazy to spend this much on a car in the first place. But those of us here aren't normal . For me personally, the 3.8 was my favorite car that I'd ever owned. I'd find any excuse that I could to take it for a ride. So when I had an opportunity to get something even better, I couldn't pass it up. Plus they're only building 600 4.0s, which makes it kind of special.
As for comparisons to a 458....I'm lucky enough to have one, and I've driven the cars back to back several times. Not that back to back is even necessary....the cars are just complete opposites in so many ways. The 458 is amazing. It's a video game kind of feel with the paddle shifters and all the electronics. It feels faster than the 4.0 (which you might expect given the 60HP difference). Of the cars I've ever driven, the 458 is the one that most feels like it just wants to GO. No matter how fast you're going, it wants to go faster. The steering is very quick, but doesn't have as much feel as the 4.0. Brakes are incredible, and may even stop better than the 4.0. The car feels solid and tight, but isn't as raw as the 4.0. Definitely street-focused rather than track-focused like the 4.0 (though I personally think the 4.0 is great on the street!). There's just a bit less feel with the 458, the ride is a bit softer, there's less tire noise, etc. But the exhaust sound of the 458 is incredible. Winding the motor up to 9000 RPM is kind of fun. The 4.0 sounds good, but there's no comparison. At the end of the day, it really depends on what you want. If you want the most involving experience, the 4.0 is the better choice. Three pedals, a traditional shifter, incredible steering feel, incredible pedal feel, you always know exactly what the car is doing. With the 458, you give up some up that involvement because you lose the third pedal, the steering feel isn't quite as good, and the car doesn't feel as raw. But you've got that insane motor and all the great noise. And I have to admit it's more of an "event" to drive the 458. Right now both cars have been parked for over a month because the weather has sucked and I haven't been able to take them out. I almost hate to admit it, but if the weather was magically perfect today, I'd probably jump in the 458 first.
Regardless, it's a pleasant problem to have. Good luck with your choice, you can't go wrong no matter what you decide.
. And I expect the power difference will become more noticeable as the engine gets more miles on it. Based on past experience, these motors seems to open up around 1200 miles or so.If you're doing track days, I have no doubt the 4.0 will turn faster lap times than the 3.8. On the street, I think in terms of drivability, comfort, etc. they're very comparable. The extra power in the 4.0 is noticeable, but obviously it's difficult to find opportunities to use all of it
. I have a hunch most "normal" people would say it would be crazy to pay the difference to upgrade . Then again, most "normal" people would also probably say that it's crazy to spend this much on a car in the first place. But those of us here aren't normal . For me personally, the 3.8 was my favorite car that I'd ever owned. I'd find any excuse that I could to take it for a ride. So when I had an opportunity to get something even better, I couldn't pass it up. Plus they're only building 600 4.0s, which makes it kind of special.As for comparisons to a 458....I'm lucky enough to have one, and I've driven the cars back to back several times. Not that back to back is even necessary....the cars are just complete opposites in so many ways. The 458 is amazing. It's a video game kind of feel with the paddle shifters and all the electronics. It feels faster than the 4.0 (which you might expect given the 60HP difference). Of the cars I've ever driven, the 458 is the one that most feels like it just wants to GO. No matter how fast you're going, it wants to go faster. The steering is very quick, but doesn't have as much feel as the 4.0. Brakes are incredible, and may even stop better than the 4.0. The car feels solid and tight, but isn't as raw as the 4.0. Definitely street-focused rather than track-focused like the 4.0 (though I personally think the 4.0 is great on the street!). There's just a bit less feel with the 458, the ride is a bit softer, there's less tire noise, etc. But the exhaust sound of the 458 is incredible. Winding the motor up to 9000 RPM is kind of fun
. The 4.0 sounds good, but there's no comparison. At the end of the day, it really depends on what you want. If you want the most involving experience, the 4.0 is the better choice. Three pedals, a traditional shifter, incredible steering feel, incredible pedal feel, you always know exactly what the car is doing. With the 458, you give up some up that involvement because you lose the third pedal, the steering feel isn't quite as good, and the car doesn't feel as raw. But you've got that insane motor and all the great noise. And I have to admit it's more of an "event" to drive the 458. Right now both cars have been parked for over a month because the weather has sucked and I haven't been able to take them out. I almost hate to admit it, but if the weather was magically perfect today, I'd probably jump in the 458 first.Regardless, it's a pleasant problem to have
. Good luck with your choice, you can't go wrong no matter what you decide.
02-11-2012, 11:36 AM
#6
Excellent post. A Ferrari is different than everything else. I think the 4.0 is cool but it is Ferrari money. For Ferrari money I would rather have a Ferrari. I am lucky enough to have one too, a 599, which can be had used for the same money or less. If they were sitting next to each other in the garage and you only had time to drive one which would you pick? There s your answer.
02-11-2012, 12:01 PM
#7
Cobrian
Very interesting post.
Very accurate to say that many "normal" people probably would not consider any Porsche.
Your garage is fascinating for me. Curious where you trader your 3.8 RS for the 4.0.
I will be on the grid at Road America for the Chicago PCA. If you are there, say hello!
Very interesting post.
Very accurate to say that many "normal" people probably would not consider any Porsche.
Your garage is fascinating for me. Curious where you trader your 3.8 RS for the 4.0.
I will be on the grid at Road America for the Chicago PCA. If you are there, say hello!
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02-11-2012, 12:05 PM
#8
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I think it's an individual decision on whether the upgrade is "worth it" or not. I think it depends on what you're looking for. I had a 997.1 GT3, a 997.2 RS (3.8), and now a 4.0. Without a doubt there are differences between all of them. The change from the GT3 to the RS was a bigger jump than from the 3.8 to the 4.0. In general the GT3 felt softer than the RS. The RS had better power, better steering, better brakes, felt tighter, and sounded better. The move from the 3.8 to the 4.0 isn't as big of a jump IMO. The biggest difference is the extra power, at least based on my experience so far (I only managed to get 300 or 400 miles on the 4.0 before the snows came!). Especially on the low end; the 4.0 pulls harder. I haven't noticed any significant differences in handling between it and the 3.8 so far, but like I said I haven't had the opportunity to push the car. Plus I think it's difficult to really pick up on subtle differences unless you can drive the cars back to back, which I didn't get to do (traded the 3.8 for 4.0). The sound of the 4.0 is also much different than that of the 3.8. Much lower exhaust note, more angry sounding. And surprisingly, much quieter so far. I expect that will change as the exhaust gets more time on it . And I expect the power difference will become more noticeable as the engine gets more miles on it. Based on past experience, these motors seems to open up around 1200 miles or so.
If you're doing track days, I have no doubt the 4.0 will turn faster lap times than the 3.8. On the street, I think in terms of drivability, comfort, etc. they're very comparable. The extra power in the 4.0 is noticeable, but obviously it's difficult to find opportunities to use all of it. I have a hunch most "normal" people would say it would be crazy to pay the difference to upgrade . Then again, most "normal" people would also probably say that it's crazy to spend this much on a car in the first place. But those of us here aren't normal . For me personally, the 3.8 was my favorite car that I'd ever owned. I'd find any excuse that I could to take it for a ride. So when I had an opportunity to get something even better, I couldn't pass it up. Plus they're only building 600 4.0s, which makes it kind of special.
As for comparisons to a 458....I'm lucky enough to have one, and I've driven the cars back to back several times. Not that back to back is even necessary....the cars are just complete opposites in so many ways. The 458 is amazing. It's a video game kind of feel with the paddle shifters and all the electronics. It feels faster than the 4.0 (which you might expect given the 60HP difference). Of the cars I've ever driven, the 458 is the one that most feels like it just wants to GO. No matter how fast you're going, it wants to go faster. The steering is very quick, but doesn't have as much feel as the 4.0. Brakes are incredible, and may even stop better than the 4.0. The car feels solid and tight, but isn't as raw as the 4.0. Definitely street-focused rather than track-focused like the 4.0 (though I personally think the 4.0 is great on the street!). There's just a bit less feel with the 458, the ride is a bit softer, there's less tire noise, etc. But the exhaust sound of the 458 is incredible. Winding the motor up to 9000 RPM is kind of fun. The 4.0 sounds good, but there's no comparison. At the end of the day, it really depends on what you want. If you want the most involving experience, the 4.0 is the better choice. Three pedals, a traditional shifter, incredible steering feel, incredible pedal feel, you always know exactly what the car is doing. With the 458, you give up some up that involvement because you lose the third pedal, the steering feel isn't quite as good, and the car doesn't feel as raw. But you've got that insane motor and all the great noise. And I have to admit it's more of an "event" to drive the 458. Right now both cars have been parked for over a month because the weather has sucked and I haven't been able to take them out. I almost hate to admit it, but if the weather was magically perfect today, I'd probably jump in the 458 first.
Regardless, it's a pleasant problem to have. Good luck with your choice, you can't go wrong no matter what you decide.
. And I expect the power difference will become more noticeable as the engine gets more miles on it. Based on past experience, these motors seems to open up around 1200 miles or so.If you're doing track days, I have no doubt the 4.0 will turn faster lap times than the 3.8. On the street, I think in terms of drivability, comfort, etc. they're very comparable. The extra power in the 4.0 is noticeable, but obviously it's difficult to find opportunities to use all of it
. I have a hunch most "normal" people would say it would be crazy to pay the difference to upgrade . Then again, most "normal" people would also probably say that it's crazy to spend this much on a car in the first place. But those of us here aren't normal . For me personally, the 3.8 was my favorite car that I'd ever owned. I'd find any excuse that I could to take it for a ride. So when I had an opportunity to get something even better, I couldn't pass it up. Plus they're only building 600 4.0s, which makes it kind of special.As for comparisons to a 458....I'm lucky enough to have one, and I've driven the cars back to back several times. Not that back to back is even necessary....the cars are just complete opposites in so many ways. The 458 is amazing. It's a video game kind of feel with the paddle shifters and all the electronics. It feels faster than the 4.0 (which you might expect given the 60HP difference). Of the cars I've ever driven, the 458 is the one that most feels like it just wants to GO. No matter how fast you're going, it wants to go faster. The steering is very quick, but doesn't have as much feel as the 4.0. Brakes are incredible, and may even stop better than the 4.0. The car feels solid and tight, but isn't as raw as the 4.0. Definitely street-focused rather than track-focused like the 4.0 (though I personally think the 4.0 is great on the street!). There's just a bit less feel with the 458, the ride is a bit softer, there's less tire noise, etc. But the exhaust sound of the 458 is incredible. Winding the motor up to 9000 RPM is kind of fun
. The 4.0 sounds good, but there's no comparison. At the end of the day, it really depends on what you want. If you want the most involving experience, the 4.0 is the better choice. Three pedals, a traditional shifter, incredible steering feel, incredible pedal feel, you always know exactly what the car is doing. With the 458, you give up some up that involvement because you lose the third pedal, the steering feel isn't quite as good, and the car doesn't feel as raw. But you've got that insane motor and all the great noise. And I have to admit it's more of an "event" to drive the 458. Right now both cars have been parked for over a month because the weather has sucked and I haven't been able to take them out. I almost hate to admit it, but if the weather was magically perfect today, I'd probably jump in the 458 first.Regardless, it's a pleasant problem to have
. Good luck with your choice, you can't go wrong no matter what you decide.I am also an extremely compassion human being. Thus, please ship both cars to me in FL. I have a big garage, the weather is about 65F now, the airport is 8 minutes from my house. You're welcome to come here, pick it up, drive, and just drop it off when you get tired. I promise you, both cars will be taken care of in your absence.
02-11-2012, 12:06 PM
#9
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The current delta to move from a used GT3/RS to a new RS 4.0 is more like $80k-$90k if you can find one at MSRP that isn't butchered with options. If you can make a trade anywhere near $50k then you should jump all over it.
02-11-2012, 12:29 PM
#10
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I think both cars are interesting enough in their own space whilst being very different and special at the same time.
I think it's more a question of what ownership means to you at this level of 'bleeding money'. For me, I saw my first Porsche at 4 (a 356 B white coupe, red interior), and that was it for me. I might be strange in thinking this, but I find the whole FCar experience to distanced from me and not connected enough to 'me'. Don't get me wrong, I am always impressed but the sound the visual and performance. But I just don't connect to them even in the design as its so exotic to my logical mind I relate more to the simple design of the 911.
But if having a new experience in a car every time is what ownership is as it is with many of my good friends, the change to an FCar would be to much for me to not do. I just think it should be about what you are looking for in the ownership experience, not where I think the cool factor or chasing the only game is.
Either way it's not a bad choice to have in this modern world. Good luck with which ever way you go.
I think it's more a question of what ownership means to you at this level of 'bleeding money'. For me, I saw my first Porsche at 4 (a 356 B white coupe, red interior), and that was it for me. I might be strange in thinking this, but I find the whole FCar experience to distanced from me and not connected enough to 'me'. Don't get me wrong, I am always impressed but the sound the visual and performance. But I just don't connect to them even in the design as its so exotic to my logical mind I relate more to the simple design of the 911.
But if having a new experience in a car every time is what ownership is as it is with many of my good friends, the change to an FCar would be to much for me to not do. I just think it should be about what you are looking for in the ownership experience, not where I think the cool factor or chasing the only game is.
Either way it's not a bad choice to have in this modern world. Good luck with which ever way you go.
02-11-2012, 12:54 PM
#11
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- MP4-12C, wait for more dealers, way more quality improvements, and the track oriented street GT3 version in 2 years.
- F458 Italia, wait until it loses 300 lbs and the bugs in the DCT Getrag transmission repaired, 2 more years.
- 4.0 RS worth every penny of whatever difference in price it has with any other GT3. The engine alone has been raced substantially in 3.6/3.8/4.0 forms for 15 years, the engine has a strong pedigree and the 4.0RS got the RSR GT racer crankshaft to make it more special. A sure collectible in 20-30 years. Next GT3 will have flappy paddles, and as the manual transmission disappears, manual tranny cars will become more appealing.
- F458 Italia, wait until it loses 300 lbs and the bugs in the DCT Getrag transmission repaired, 2 more years.
- 4.0 RS worth every penny of whatever difference in price it has with any other GT3. The engine alone has been raced substantially in 3.6/3.8/4.0 forms for 15 years, the engine has a strong pedigree and the 4.0RS got the RSR GT racer crankshaft to make it more special. A sure collectible in 20-30 years. Next GT3 will have flappy paddles, and as the manual transmission disappears, manual tranny cars will become more appealing.
02-11-2012, 01:24 PM
#13
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I've thought about this too. But, no where can I find a low optioned 4.0. The one at champion 1 month ago was one of the nicely spec'd cars with only PCCB. The other ones that are left have the adaptive seats or crazy stitching options
02-11-2012, 02:19 PM
#14
Thanks for the great posts. Cobrien, I really appreciate the detail in your post.
A couple more facts here. First, if I get the 4.0, I will plan to keep it forever and I plan to drive it as it was meant to be driven. This means that ultimately, I want to be fully connected with the car when I'm on the track. If it was strictly about fastest track time, I'd probably get a Nissan GT-R. But I want a car that is rewarding to drive on the track, even though I get out there a max of 6x a year. On the street, I'm sure they all feel great but there is no way I'm pushing the cars on the street to anywhere near their capabilities. As for the 458 or the MP4-12C, I have yet to drive them but I don't feel the desire to keep them, unlike the 4.0.
A couple more facts here. First, if I get the 4.0, I will plan to keep it forever and I plan to drive it as it was meant to be driven. This means that ultimately, I want to be fully connected with the car when I'm on the track. If it was strictly about fastest track time, I'd probably get a Nissan GT-R. But I want a car that is rewarding to drive on the track, even though I get out there a max of 6x a year. On the street, I'm sure they all feel great but there is no way I'm pushing the cars on the street to anywhere near their capabilities. As for the 458 or the MP4-12C, I have yet to drive them but I don't feel the desire to keep them, unlike the 4.0.
