Gt3 owners with gt2 rear sway bar
#106
Just ordered my bar from Suncoast. Thanks to deputydog for arranging the special deal. Ryan at Suncoast told me there aren't many bars left in inventory anywhere in the states, so get yours now.
#107
Andrew,
Since our setup (i.e. with Guard 50/80) is clearly very similar, and you just had an alignment (so rear toe isn't likely toe-out), and we use similar tires, what is left is only a few things:
- hot tire temps - i run basically 32-33f, 35-36r hot
- i run significantly less front camber
- i run the 19" (235,315 R6) and (245,305 PSS)
- my car is lowered (i will take exact measurements ground to fender tonight for you) - maybe you have a rake / not enough weight over the rear tire issue
- i have the RS wing on my gt3 - and i run it at 12degrees all the time
I had David Empringham drive the car with fresh Hoosiers for 4 very hot and fast laps at Mosport (way faster than I could ever possibly go) and he likes a car that slightly pushes so he can be very aggressive trail braking on entry and with max weight over the rear for grip on throttle - and he said my setup was very good - and he had previously said it was way to loose when my rear R888s got heat cycled out. This was before I had all the solid RSS stuff put in and the suspension re-valved but the car did have rear toe arms.
Since our setup (i.e. with Guard 50/80) is clearly very similar, and you just had an alignment (so rear toe isn't likely toe-out), and we use similar tires, what is left is only a few things:
- hot tire temps - i run basically 32-33f, 35-36r hot
- i run significantly less front camber
- i run the 19" (235,315 R6) and (245,305 PSS)
- my car is lowered (i will take exact measurements ground to fender tonight for you) - maybe you have a rake / not enough weight over the rear tire issue
- i have the RS wing on my gt3 - and i run it at 12degrees all the time
I had David Empringham drive the car with fresh Hoosiers for 4 very hot and fast laps at Mosport (way faster than I could ever possibly go) and he likes a car that slightly pushes so he can be very aggressive trail braking on entry and with max weight over the rear for grip on throttle - and he said my setup was very good - and he had previously said it was way to loose when my rear R888s got heat cycled out. This was before I had all the solid RSS stuff put in and the suspension re-valved but the car did have rear toe arms.
Stock rake.
Stock wing.
PSS temps: 38f/40r hot
You're very welcome. Enjoy!
#108
So I ran the new sway bar this weekend. I'm not really sure what to think. The rear end became very snappy, with more than a few than times the car getting completely sideways. Ran full soft rear and 2nd hole (stiff side) on front. However... I was on PSS instead of hoosiers so I'm not sure it's a good evaluation as the PSS push a lot in general on tight turn ins. I'll try it again on hoosiers for a better comparison to the stock bar.
With GT2 rear bar on full soft and front bar 1 from full stiff my car handles very neutrally with Hoosiers, Hoosier Wets or Sport Cups.
#109
I learned this lesson early on. In my previous car on MPSC tires I was told 40 hot front and rear was what to aim for - but on the gt3 40 in the rear absolutely didn't do it for me. I felt I was constantly fighting with the car's setup as it was too knife-edge. I then started targeting rear 38 hot and then lower again and I'm now down to 35-36 with 32-33 front - this works so much better for me and I use it for both the PSS and the R6s.
Now, this is obviously very track dependent and speed dependent, but I think your front and rear camber setup is way too high especially if you are going to use PSS tires. At one point when I was trying to dial out the under steer I ended up at -2.7f and -2.4r the front was needed to get the car to turn. But, as soon as the gt2 bar was on the car, I slowly reduced the camber front and rear for much better tire wear and I find it also works with Hoosier R6s for my driving style, my local tracks + some daily driving / driving to the track.
So, my personal recommendation would be to try:
- lower hot temps (32-33, 35-36)
- back down the camber setup to get better tire wear
- you now don't need as much 'help' in the front if the rear will actually rotate more
- if the above doesn't help, then consider slightly lowering the rear of the car lets say 5mm to get more weight over the rear tires
#111
I had the same issues when I had my GT2 bar installed on full soft 2 years ago. The car was a real handful. When I got under the car and looked at the bar and links it was clear the shop had gotten distracted or something and set the bar full stiff, not full soft. Full soft is achieved when links are attached to end of lever arms as away from the side to side shaft of the bar as possible. Take a look and double check the setting, you may find you have the same problem I had.
With GT2 rear bar on full soft and front bar 1 from full stiff my car handles very neutrally with Hoosiers, Hoosier Wets or Sport Cups.
With GT2 rear bar on full soft and front bar 1 from full stiff my car handles very neutrally with Hoosiers, Hoosier Wets or Sport Cups.
#112
Alignment seems way too aggressive for those street tires, I'd get the alignment fixed, then test.
Your 50/80 locks aggrressively, so couple that with more rear bar, and too aggressive of alignment, and I can see how you get snap oversteer. The rear tires don't have the grip to cope.
Your 50/80 locks aggrressively, so couple that with more rear bar, and too aggressive of alignment, and I can see how you get snap oversteer. The rear tires don't have the grip to cope.
#113
Alignment stays as I don't really drive the car much on the street. It's really setup for hoosiers. So maybe the bar is fine and its just that my setup is way too aggressive for street tires.
I'm switching to nt01's after my last set of hoosiers are done so I'll soften the alignment at that point.
I am going to check the setting to be on the safe side though as that would be a quick fix.
I'm switching to nt01's after my last set of hoosiers are done so I'll soften the alignment at that point.
I am going to check the setting to be on the safe side though as that would be a quick fix.
#114
Alignment stays as I don't really drive the car much on the street. It's really setup for hoosiers. So maybe the bar is fine and its just that my setup is way too aggressive for street tires.
I'm switching to nt01's after my last set of hoosiers are done so I'll soften the alignment at that point.
I am going to check the setting to be on the safe side though as that would be a quick fix.
I'm switching to nt01's after my last set of hoosiers are done so I'll soften the alignment at that point.
I am going to check the setting to be on the safe side though as that would be a quick fix.
#117
dont forget (if you are doing a DIY install) to properly lube the rubber bushings...
#119