997 GT3 MKII info from W.Rohrl
11-12-2008, 08:32 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
11-12-2008, 08:34 PM
#62
Nordschleife Master
very often the concept of HP and TQ are poorly understood. it is HP (more properly, Power, by any unit) that ultimately determines how fast a car goes. this is a matter of Physics, whether you'e talking about cars or...horses.
11-12-2008, 10:20 PM
#64
Burning Brakes
They don't need to make it taller. The 6th gear in the 997 GT3 is good for 208 mph at 8,400 rpm, for a car that barely reaches 193 mph. At 7,800 rpm the same 6th gear is good for 193 mph.
But knowing Porsche, they will install a longer 6th gear for fuel economy. That's exactly the same mess they made with the PDK. Instead of installing a close ratio transmission, they put a 7th gear that is too long, and the 6th gear in the PDK is about the same as the manual transmission 6th gear. The results, extra weight and no performance gains other than the fake no lift upshift (which quite a few of us know how to do with a manual transmission).
But knowing Porsche, they will install a longer 6th gear for fuel economy. That's exactly the same mess they made with the PDK. Instead of installing a close ratio transmission, they put a 7th gear that is too long, and the 6th gear in the PDK is about the same as the manual transmission 6th gear. The results, extra weight and no performance gains other than the fake no lift upshift (which quite a few of us know how to do with a manual transmission).
ps. porsche will loose at least 1 customer if pdk is not in the next 3. just drove 300 miles round trip to a track day only to be stuck in 2 hrs bumper to bumper traffic about 30 miles from home. seems to happen to me a lot and not a pleasant experience so paddles on next car for sure.
11-13-2008, 05:00 AM
#65
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No need to do it on downshift, there are no gains there.
11-13-2008, 11:24 AM
#66
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That's not so good for your transmission, even if you're really good at doing it.
11-13-2008, 12:36 PM
#67
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The GT2 and GT3 tranmissions have notoriously weak synchros. Fast shifting of any sort will provoke premature failure. Porsche teaches the 'heartbeat' method at their school. Pause a heartbeat between shifts.
11-13-2008, 01:54 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
+1
Plus, Weissach engineers I talked to all see PDK as the way forward in terms of performance driving. Put it this way: name a driver here who would be faster around a race track in the same GT3 with and without 66 pounds mounted low and between the rear wheels. Then put the same driver in an identical PDK car and see what their times look like. My guess: their PDK times will be better. Perhaps noticeably so. And my guess is they will get better, sooner with PDK because they can concentrate on their other inputs while reaping the benefits of faster shifters and on-power shifts.
Thankfully, the stick isn't dead for two reasons: 1) "Porsche likes to have a standard car" (translation: lighter for homologation/emissions/economy/etc. purposes) and 2) Porsche likes to have something it can charge a little extra for (oh, how we know that to be true).
Thus, I have a hard time seeing no PDK for the GTs. Maybe not in the next one, but it seems odd to me that the best technology wouldn't be present as an option.
And, as much of a stick-shift diehard as I am, I would order PDK if I wanted to become a better track driver (and I do) and would be doing regular track days in my 997. Hey, once I "master" my lines, braking points, and throttle inputs, I can always sell the car and buy another to add the challenge of a third pedal back into the mix, right? But something tells me that would be a while...
I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I'd sure like to get better as a track driver, and I see PDK as a GREAT tool for that...
Now, if the car was going to be a "keeper" and a street-mainly toy, then I would still take a stick every time. Speed ≠ joy, at least not always.
pete
Plus, Weissach engineers I talked to all see PDK as the way forward in terms of performance driving. Put it this way: name a driver here who would be faster around a race track in the same GT3 with and without 66 pounds mounted low and between the rear wheels. Then put the same driver in an identical PDK car and see what their times look like. My guess: their PDK times will be better. Perhaps noticeably so. And my guess is they will get better, sooner with PDK because they can concentrate on their other inputs while reaping the benefits of faster shifters and on-power shifts.
Thankfully, the stick isn't dead for two reasons: 1) "Porsche likes to have a standard car" (translation: lighter for homologation/emissions/economy/etc. purposes) and 2) Porsche likes to have something it can charge a little extra for (oh, how we know that to be true).
Thus, I have a hard time seeing no PDK for the GTs. Maybe not in the next one, but it seems odd to me that the best technology wouldn't be present as an option.
And, as much of a stick-shift diehard as I am, I would order PDK if I wanted to become a better track driver (and I do) and would be doing regular track days in my 997. Hey, once I "master" my lines, braking points, and throttle inputs, I can always sell the car and buy another to add the challenge of a third pedal back into the mix, right? But something tells me that would be a while...
I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I'd sure like to get better as a track driver, and I see PDK as a GREAT tool for that...Now, if the car was going to be a "keeper" and a street-mainly toy, then I would still take a stick every time. Speed ≠ joy, at least not always.
pete
11-13-2008, 03:53 PM
#70
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Out of those 6 times, 3 were at a drag strip (Englishtown), the GT3 ran a 11.82 at 120 mph, the other 3 at the track. When you have a stubborn supercharged C5-Z06 or Viper Oreca race car at Pocono North, slowing you down on the turns and killing you on the straights, just leave room in front of you, take the first corner exiting the bowl at your limits, power-shift, in no-time you're passing the big HP car, brake late for that left, and you won't see them again.
These were the only two cars that gave me trouble ever at a track day. C6-Z06, old SRT-10 Vipers, GT2, Radical were never a problem.
11-13-2008, 04:22 PM
#71
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I get held up a lot, too. But again, no thanks on the powershift. Just stay calm, let off, restage with a big spacing, and your all set to go again. It's not worth your drivetrain just to pass some knucklehead.
