Schwabische Auto

Wow, touched a nerve, perhaps criticism from a "lowly" M3 owner was too much to take!

PogueMoHone

+1

But the GTR is still unappealing!

eclou

KitChris did you even read the Nagtroc thread? "Chrisn" has been one of the more vocal doubters of the GTR tranny issue, until his died a couple of weeks ago. The important question is no longer how many transmissions have died, but rather if Nissan has replaced any under warranty at all (besides the Edmunds press car) - there is not a single reported incidence of coverage that I am aware of.

Kit_Chris

I'm glad we've worked this down to a single issue, although I'm not sure you're framing it the right way.

The very first time you quoted Nagtroc was a few months ago when the first case of a broken box was exposed with bells and whistles, you were then absolutely convinced the culprit had been found. It was later revealed that this first case, which got the entire controversy going (and which was picked up and spun on boards like ours), was entirely due to the owner's repetitive use of launch control. This first case has since been dismissed as another example of "too much money not enough judgment".

Yes, the issue is how many transmissions failed, in this respect very few have, and we're now more than 18 months after the GTR's production started. The other question is not how many failed boxes will be replaced under warranty by Nissan, but rather how many of the very few failures are due to anything else than abuse by owners. You're not suggesting Nissan (or any other manufacturer) should cover damage to a transmission when the owner deliberately ignored the manufacturer's warnings, are you?

I repeat, the issue was always whether the GTR's transmission holds up or not, there are dozens of Rennlist threads that testify to this very fact. The day someone credibly says Nissan refused to repair damage to a transmission that broke due to anything else than repetitive launches, I'll agree with you. For now, Nissan has built hundreds of GTRs, some are pushed hard on the track (the ultimate test which historically put Porsche on a different level), and yet the car is holding up.

I'm afraid there's only one criticism left to the nay-sayers: the GTR's design.

Regards,
Chris

OldGuy

Chris I had some respect for your opinion because even though you have unsupportable position
you have used some respect and even remembered sometimes that this isnt a Nissan forum. But the last couple posts indicate you are speaking on emotion now and you have lost what ever respectability you had left. I wont be reading your long winded posts anymore.

Kit_Chris

Being lectured by you about speaking emotionally is like being told to sit up straight by the hunchback of Notre-Dame!

I've been a member of this community for years, a committed owner and an absolute fan of the brand, this however does not excuse the lamentable hatred that's developed around a competing car and I feel strongly that you represent a minority of Rennlisters, hence my "long winded posts" which you are entirely free to ignore if you so feel, although I have this glaring suspicion that you will return before long to throw some more stones, and I will gladly take part in the fun, that's what an argument should be! As for respectability, the need to denigrate a piece of car using fallacious arguments to glory into Porsche is an amusing yet totally unnecessary exercise IMO.

Has there been mudslinging of any Porsche products in order to exalt the GTR? That's the kind of fanboise talk you condemn, yet I've seen none of this on Rennlist. Has there been disrespectful talk by anyone involved in this? I can see none either, just a heated debate, and a few challenging jabs, what's not to like about it?!

Regards,
Chris

N-Dub

That was a looooong sentence......

TRAKCAR

I trusted the GT3 better for track abuse, but nothing but respect for the GTR as a street car!

Schwabische Auto

Your efforts to argue your cause are somewhat a futile effort (even in the remote chance your argument has merit). Because of the tangible or intangibles the brand, whatever forum you are on, no matter what you say, most will not agree. Otherwise they would have bought whatever you are the proponent of.

While not currently a Porsche owner (was in the past), I realize brand loyalty and some of the other aspects of the car make them great cars. I for example think the new M3 is a great car too, but you are not going to see me on Rennlist comparing the merits of it to the base model Carrera. It would be a losing battle no matter what statistics I might quote.

I for one would never buy a sports car from Japan. In fact my wife has a Lexus SUV and I avoid having to to drive that too. Nothing you say would convince me to buy a GTR no matter how great you perceive it to be. Again, its the intangibles, whether it is, the no nonsense technology of German cars, the rich heritage in Motorsports, my family being from the region, or whatever, as irrational as you might think I might be or other might be, nothing would convince me to buy a sports car from Japan. And similarly, for whatever reason others on the forum admire the Porsche brand, I doubt you will convince them otherwise too no matter how persuasive you might be (however not in this case).

In conclusion of my point, If you want to cut down the GT3 on NAGTROG.org, more power to you, but what do you expect when you get this type of reaction here. It seems you are making the point just for the sake of argument.

Kit_Chris

You're absolutely right about that last sentence, I'm an opinionated debater but I love a good discussion! Now, the point I want to stress is this, and you could be excused for missing this out because you recently joined but most here deliberately ignore it for convenience: neither I nor anyone else as far as I know "cut down" the GT3 or any other P-car on this board in order to sing the praises of the GTR; the only car that was bashed was the GTR using half truths and downright untruths. I don't feel the need to once again profess my faith for the German marque, but I do get the urge to jump in when stories are made up and spun. In no way does bashing a foreign product serve the purpose of this community, and that's been my opinion all along, anyone here is free to disagree.

To sum up, if you want some real symmetry for comparison purposes, what if some GTR owners started making things up to denigrate the GT3 on their board, do you think they would find clever ways to "disrespect" one of their members stepping up against the lies and the crooked logic that's put forward?

Regards,
Chris

N-Dub

I hate Kia....

dagor6

It makes perfect sense in Canada and I think it's perfectly understandable that Nissan should continue to force Canadians to pay for any transmission repairs that result from whatever definition of abuse Nissan has invented.

However, here in the US, we have already established that manufacturers must pay us for any repairs that result from operation of the car and do not involve physical damage but rather mechanical failure.

Mechanical failure is very simple, mechanical pieces are like hammers, when they fail it's because you were doing more than you should have with the part. Let's just admit what we're working with here? A 400+ hp engine attached to a transmission geared towards Sentra's.

If Nissan wants to do that then fine, put a sticker on the steering wheel that says "WARNING: WE HAVE MATED A 300 HP TRANSMISSION TO A 400HP ENGINE, YOU MUST DRIVE THIS LIKE A 300 HP CAR!!"

Schwabische Auto

Who cares what they do on their board! If I cared, I would visit their forum, otherwise who cares what they think.

I come to this forum for the information, knowledge base, experiences, commraderie, etc. concerning Porsches, and like I'm sure many others do also. I may be new to this forum, but have dealt with this same stuff on the BMW forums for quite some time. I don't really like it there either and accordingly don't care what they post about the GTR there either. If I were interested in anything GTR, I would go the GTR Board. Its just anoying in either case.

Schwabische Auto

Oh, one last point, and I'm not making this point to plug the M3's M-DCT transmission but to point out anecdotally, that there is an engineering issue with the GTR. Go to the M3 forums, no one is complaining that their tranny is breaking after using launch control. The main topic concerning the M3 tranny is a software glitch which was 95% dealt with with a flash reprogramming. Its a 420HP car with a 420HP transmission. Im sure the new Porsche DKG tranny will be well engineered also.

Ahh, superior teutonic engineering whether in Stuttgart, Ingolstadt, or Munich!

Kit_Chris

This thing is an endless misunderstanding.. I was just responding to this comment of yours In conclusion of my point, If you want to cut down the GT3 on NAGTROG.org, more power to you, but what do you expect when you get this type of reaction here. Anyway, you may claim not to care about the GTR, 5/6 of your posts had me believe otherwise. The point is, contrary to your assertion, no P-car bashing was done here, yet some feel invaded by fanboises! Am I the only one to see humor in this?!

I assure you that Rennlisters have considerable interest in the GTR, case in point do a search and find out that all threads on the topic were started by those who had something to say against it. If my fellow Rennlisters think this is a worthwhile discussion, why react so bitterly when someone brings along some contrary views?!

DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THIS.

Regards,
Chris