Originally Posted by 911/Q45

This reasoned approach to child rearing would explain why CA colleges are considering reverse affirmative action for asian kids!

Originally Posted by mooty

AFAIK, aisans are not considered minority in UC system and were not included in affirmative action. and in many cases, there are "undisclosed" reverse affirmative action. i was on the admission committee of a well know UC school and let's just say begin asian reduced your admission chance, regardless of what ppl have read or heard. comment applies to graduate school only as i only reviewed those applications.

Originally Posted by F1CrazyDriver

So jh, it was you rejected me from the HAS program at berkeley ?

Originally Posted by GT3 Chuck

mooty, I am thankful that Mia is being raised by a loving parent like yourself and not some self indulgent psycho babble pin head...

Originally Posted by mooty

could be and it's HAAS, LOL.

in HAAS and in CED i admitted less than 1% of my review pool.

however, the acceptance ratio is meaningless, 1/2 of the applicants were below cut off line to begin with.

Originally Posted by mooty

well said (i mean it seriously, not being facetious) and due consideration will be given (my wife and i will discuss your post as well as drh's as we are open to other views).
however, the fundamental ideology of child care and formal education differ dramatically based on culture. my raised voice, in an asian community, will never be seen as "verbal abuse". it's a summon to notify the child that we are now in a serious discussion.

crying is fine, when needed. but when a child uses crying as a lie, it is not acceptable. 3.5 yrs old may seem young to some, but it's not too early to reason with them. she now, successfully, negotiates with me with regards to her TV time, what she likes to have for dinner and her own request to see a dentist so she can eat candy and not have cavities is beyond her maturity.

i ask her to finish her food on her plate before she goes to watch dora. one night she was watching dora after dinner, came to my desk (i was on RL), she said "daddy, you didn't finish your dinner. you cannot use computer" thus you can infer that she fully understood this line of logic. so next time, if she cries for wanting to see dora but not finishing her dinner, you know she's screwing around you. then you need to put her in her place. it has nothing to do if shes 1 or 5 or 10 yr old. she KNOWS the logic. (of course, i smiled, and applauded her catching me not finishing dinner, i went back to the dinner table and stuff the horrible food down my throat). she was plenty happy to "verbally abuse" dadday.

the complex topic is difficult to discuss online. and some how i have been seen as a tyrant or abusive parent. those rennlisters who know me well and have seen mia (my 3.5yr old) knows she has more love than my entire neighborhood added together. the posts of her and my car i have shared with the community show how close we are. and the fact that she always wants to play with daddy first, makes some strange artwork and gave them to me as "presents" (she gets xmas wrapping and wrap them up too) shows that she isn't abused, far from it.

she wakes up at night every night around 4am and craws into my side of the bed, tell you something.

while it is great to let a child be a child and express their emotions, they need to be taught. a child should enjoy some TV, read a few fun book, and goto play dates. however being a child doesn't mean that she's allowed to leave her bottle everywhere, leave her jacket everywhere (she hangs her own jacket without me ever telling her b/c she watches what i do, she did that at 2.75 years old. ), eat as much candy as she wants to, or buy every toy she sees.

i told her that i dont like her to play in sand box b/c it makes her cloths and shoes and the house dirty. the next day (she's 3.25 at that time), she played in sand box, came home, sat near front door (door open).... i asked her to close the front door... she replied, "not yet, daddy, i am throwing sand out..." i can't understand that, so i went to see what she was doing and help close the door. she had her shoes off, knocking the shoe on the door steps to dump the sand out, then rubbed her hands over her jacket to get rid sand on jacket, then took a swiffer stick to swife/broom the entry (i wipe the floor every weekend, so she watched and learned).... this behavior was not taught to her. i dont need my baby to sweep the floor. but she watches the old man and copies it. my point is do not underestimate a child. if you dont "teach", "request", "discipline" them, they are 'teaching', 'conditioning', and 'disciplining' YOU. children are a lot smarter than you think, or maybe mia is just beyond believe?

she loves to throw penny into wishing wells. i always give her THREE pennies to throw. one day, trying to teach her economics, i told her that pennies can buy cookies. next time you give daddy pennies, and we go buy cookies. she goes, "i dont want cookies... " silence, twirling the pennies in her hands, dropping one, picking it up.... "can i buy candies with pennies?" i said yes. she asked "can i buy two candies, for for mia one for daddy?", i said yes, but that's two pennies for two candies. she quickly turned around, threw one penny in the water, steps off the steps, gives me TWO pennies and held my hand... "daddy, two pennies, let's get two BIG candies"....

she surprised me with that logic... so i had to stop giving her pennies. i wanted to teach her "economics" just for fun. didn't think she would get it. but she did understand, then i had to step back. teaching her "money" at this age is going to ruin her childhood. so i push the child hard, but i know when to back off.

oh, one time, a penny fell in toilet while she was getting ready to bathe. she was PISSED. ran down the stair naked... "daddy daddy daddy.... come up stairs. toilet ate my penny... no penny, no candies..." kids are smart. dont be fooled.

i have skipped numerous steps b/n nice dad and some's reference of my 'verbal abuse'. when mistakes are made, she's told that's a mistake, shown the correct method, given several chances to correct over time. then from her behavior, you make a determination as to if the child can actually grasp the concept. i dont teach her integral calculus yet, b/c she doesn't understand, only counts to 30 or so in two languages. but i have watched her repeatedly that she has full control over her food. so when she spews rice all over, she's doing it on purpose or not being careful. now if she did that b/c she's too young and cannot control her motions, certainly i would be an idiot to be upset. but when demonstrated that certain skills have been mastered and understood and yet she drops food all over, they are doing it on purpose. that is the difference.

when i do raise my voice, i am not angry about the dirty floor and i certainly am not exercising my need to "verbally abuse" anyone. those who met me or work with me, find that i am the most friendly and easily get along person they have EVER met. i am angry about her not knowing that is wrong to do what she did. then i will teach her right from wrong. once she knows right from wrong and still makes the mistake, then my anger is about her purposely doing the wrong thing. the dirty floor is just an artifact, not the reason for my discipline.

in the numerous child rearing and child psychology books i have studied to prepare for mia's arrival, "abandonment" is something mentioned over and over again. i understand it's implications though do not fully agree with the assessment. again, it's way too complicated to discuss online. often times a child with "abandonment" experiences grows up to become socially inept. but some due measure of "abandonment" does help sharpen a child's social awareness. there are many levels of "abandonment".

with absolute no "abandonment", then one example you see are children who will not sleep through the night until 5. it's very difficult to ignore crying 1 year old in middle of the night. mothers wake up to tend for them and to this day, my nephew does that still at 5 years old. if you "abandon" the child and ignore the crying at 1-2 yr old, most of them will sleep through the night. this technique is suggested by majority of the studies conducted. but isn't that "abandonment"? this is what i mean by there are many levels of "abandonment".

many kidnapping or lost children result from children wandering away from parents b/c they are not paying attention to where the parents are. they are looking at toys, ppl, various other distractions. i followed mia, she does just that. then i hid behind a large column in the mall where i can see her but she doesn't see me. i have "abandoned" her. the i see her panicking. i reappeared to tell her that she has to always know where daddy is, always ask daddy before she goes to see fish (aquarium), dora, or anything else. after that one "abandoment" episode, she got that down. now i see no negative consequences whatoever in this particular "abandonment".

when i "abandon" mia in my backyard (that's less than 200sq ft, mind you), i am not leaving her there for dead. i watch her for the entire duration to see what she is doing. so, if she fell and breaks open her skull, i'll be there.

to say that "threat" (for lack of better word), reward, discipline do not work long term, i have to disagree and it has nothing to do with my or my late father's methods. we as human being all operate under "threat", "reward" and "discipline". why dont you goto work at 3pm and come home at 330pm everyday? you can't b/c there's a "threat" that you might lose your client, or your job. there's a "threat" you will be "disciplined" and not "rewarded" at year end. why do we eat dinner ? there's a "threat" of being hungry and we may be "disciplined" by our internal organs as they "threat" to fail and shutdown. there are many examples of such in EVERYTHING we do in life. to a large extent, we operate under "threat", "reward", and "discipline" but some choose to use fancier nomenclature to disguise the real picture.

this is a thread about OG, i had my piece, and i am off the soap box.

Originally Posted by 340Elise

Does that mean I was right?

Originally Posted by 340Elise

Does that mean I was right?

Originally Posted by drh

I dunno, you tell me since you called me and another "gullible"

At any rate, that was a lovely dissertation coming from a gent with 3.5 years of practical parenting experience.

Of course what would I know...I've only been a parent for 30-years and a gramps for about 4.

Originally Posted by mooty

Well, if you intend to ridicule my post as a “dissertation” then so be it.

You imply the 3.5 years of practical parenting experience is not enough, then what is enough? Reading every book under the sun. Getting therapy for me? Listening to you? Practical experience?

I rely and am willing to gamble my child’s future and emotional well being through close and practical experience of my 4 grandparents I have/had.

The 4 grandparents had total of 13 children. 36 grand children and 4 great grand children.

The grandparents, except one college grad, never had the chance to finish elementary school. It was not common in those years. They relied on the methods in my “dissertation” as did generations before them, and raised the 13 children, who had the chance to attend college. Those were my parents’ generation and I cannot speak for what mischief they went through during their formative years.

But the 36 grand children (my generation) were all close and grew up within 300 miles of each other until some immigrated to USA, to Canada and other regions of the world. We were taught the same way by our parents and grandparents and ALL 36 has at least one advanced degrees from well known universities, those who are professional got their licenses earlier than the norm, no one has turned psycho from “abuse and abandonment”, no one holds grudge with their parents or grand parents, no one’s in jail and every one of us respects our elders. No one talks back. When a grandparent on my father's side was ill needing hospitalization allof us on that side went to visit and 9 of us flew more than 10 hours to him. everyday of the 30+ days he's in the hospital one of use was there.

and in a different year grandma on mom's side fell broke her hip, ALL 18 grandchildren (obviously not the same 18) were by her bedside and again many flew long distance to be back. All of the grandchildren generation calls their elders on a weekly basis until now; she cannot talk anymore (stroke). So, we visit now.

The grand parents generation have no money no asset. We support them, so we are not in it for inheritance. We pay her hospital bills, which is well into 6 figures a year.

And speaking of “abuse”, ALL 36 grandchildren were “beat” to hell. And in this case I do mean BEAT with bamboo sticks and blood dripping (world changed a bit, so now we don’t actually BEAT kids). When one makes a mistake, it’s a lot better to be punished by next of kin then being killed on the street.

I see nothing “wrong” with this child rearing method. And from the fact that ALL 36 kids turned out well, it is not a coincidence.

Simply b/c we use a different and what appears to be foreign to your method doesn’t make your method any more relevant.

How many “protected” children out there turned out better?

Another dissertation I guess.

Originally Posted by OldGuy

A little update. My lawyer found the curfew ticket was written wrong. It will be a autodismiss.
The code was written against a juvenille with a permit NOT a real license.

The ticket was not paced. I made an error based on my sons description, it was marked Radar.
My Lawyer said this is better-more technicalities to get this dismissed. He also said
he may be able to get the DA not even to file the charge.
The cop asked my son if he has stolen the truck. That pissed me off too.