340Elise

Put against the 997 TT, I would definetely be very interested in the GTR and take a hard look at it. But that is because I am not very impressed with the new TT. I can easily believe that the GTR edged out the TT in Driving Excitement. I drove a 997 TT and I was not the least bit excited. All I wanted to do is get back in my GT3. Were it not for the GT3, I would be back in a Lotus Exige S 240 (purchased brand new at invoice), and would not give a TT a second look. But the same would go for the GTR compared to an Exige. I really, really hate weight, options, and techie crap on a car.



I am a little bitter today since I weighed my fat *** GT3 yesterday and it came in at 3,180 lbs. This is a base car (red belts and base carbon package do not add weight) with an RS flywheel, Sharkwerks exhaust delete, 5 gallons of gas, and about 5 lbs of paperwork, sunglasses and other assorted items.

What happened to the 3075 lbs that Porsche claims?

Well, I guess the Euro GT3 seats are out; I'm switching to the ReVerie twin skin carbon seats weighing in at about 6 lbs each, maybe I will just get one since I am alone in the car 99% of the time. That should knock 100 lbs off right there. But I want to hit 2800 lbs, so I have a ways to go. I guess I will have to do carpeting and doors and maybe the sunroof and rear window. And I will need a new exhaust and battery too. Why couldn't it weigh 3,060 lbs like I was hoping?

SpeedGeek

Ummm... Porsche is a truck company. They make some damn fine sports cars, but without their trucks they wouldn't exist.

triode

Just kidding, brother. You and I agree totally on this issue...

trumperZ06

It's beginning to look like the GT-R's performance is for real.

We are getting enough reports indicating that the GT-R is going to be a handful @ the track.

The electronic controls ( traction, stability,engine & tranny management,) enable this 3900 lb. sports coupe to compete with sports cars that are hundreds of pounds lighter.

The GT-R will force Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette, and others to...

"Up their Game"

which will give us all faster & better cars.

RR

I've posted this before and in another forum.

In a video game like Gran Turismo 4 it is possible for the computer to calculate the exact line and exact throttle, breaking, steering, metre by meter, turn by turn for a given track to provide the most effecient (see quickest) laptime.

In real life this should be also possible with the use of a GPS. I'm not inferring that a computer drove the GT-R at the Ring, but it is possible for a driver to get "help" in attaining the quickest laptime possible.

The system and the driver inputs can be interdependent, so that even if the driver "screws up" in one corner the entire system with a GPS can re-calculate the new "model" for the quickest lap for the remainer of the lap given the driver's past errors - much similar in the way a NAV system recaculates a route if its driver makes a left instead of a right.

To me it is entirely possible, and some people have agreed with me that this is in fact occurring. Someone here, or in another forum did post that Road & Track did a test with the GT-R where only a Nissan driver was allowed to pilot the car.

If the GT-R is in fact doing this, it is an incredible feat of engineering whether you call it cheating or not, but I would say that it is just taking the level of "cheating" from one that ASR, ABS, TC, PASM provides to an entirely new and attainable level.

Darwantae951

Whats with the C&D article stating "480 hp to the wheels" for the GTR? I've only seen 430 come from one.

-Darwin

LastMezger

I drove a GT-R on road and track Tuesday and I came away impressed. The car is very fast, has good steering and phenomenal grip. Plenty of understeer but you can get around it with power and late turn-in.

Overall I was very impressed and would consider one for my garage. I'm 6'5" so the size of the car is a plus in terms of comfort. Ride seems taut on road but somewhat soft on track. Not much to listen to from inside the cabin but the gearbox is the best of its ilk. Very fast and works well in the automatic mode too.

Bottom line is that the GT-R is a phenomenal GT car with supercar killing performance. A 911 is more engaging, rewarding, entertaining and pleasing to drive...just not as fast. That might be a problem for some people depending on what they are looking for in a car. GT-R is also a helluva good deal at $70K.

dagor6

You might want to start with wheels and exhaust and battery. Seats end up being a huge modification to just take a little bit off sprung weight.

Wheels rotate and are unsprung, rotating mass gains weight through inertia and in practicality weighs a lot more. I seem to remember a base line being x4 but it has to depend on speed right? Track guys?

You might want to start in a different direction, take the current weight of your car and add in the weight of the old flywheel. Multiply the current wheel weight by 4 and add that in. Multiply the old flywheel weight by 4 and add that in. That's a rough guess at practical weight at speed.

Then put on new wheels and recalc for new weight + new flywheel weight. You might find you've cut a lot more weight than you thought

OldGuy

Stephen do you have PCCB''s?

UDPride

I love my Porsches but they have giant warts too. No car is for everybody. People driving $10,000 Civics with $15,000 under the hood who can out corner all of us, out accelerate, and haul four people comfortably to the supermarket probably dont understand why we spend so much as we do for less performance.

Yes, theres a nice driver feel to Porsches, but I dont think Porsche corners the market on it. Nissan has a glorified racing history that goes back decades. The GTR has been around a long time. This is not something new that Nissan is trying to put on. There are some serious brilliant minds working back at Nissan who know as much about racing as anyone. Porsche has the luxury of being around for 60 years and racing the entire time.

For $70,000 I cant think of a better car than the GTR. The performance numbers are almost unbelievable, and yet I bet the car is so over-engineered you could churn 800 reliable horsepower with $4,500 in mods and still retain 98% of the reliability (see also Supra Turbo). Plus the car is downright practical. You can drive it every day, take your entire family in it. use it as a grocery getter, run it in the snow belt, etc. Its an all-rounder, whereas most Porsches are more centric. Neither is better or worse, just different.

If you had to have just one car though, Id probably choose a GTR over say a used 996TT. It just makes more $en$e.

I kind of agree with the insecurity thing with some pcar owners. Not necessarily in this thread but in general. I find most people who hate on the car open their mouths with "well I want a car that connects with me, not a GTR", all the while assuming the GTR cannot and does not connect with the driver and offer exhilarating feedback. Why the presumption of inadequacy instead of accomplishment before ever even driving the car?

Im not a big Z06 fan because of the looks, but I tip my hat to Chevy for producing such a performance car for $65,000. For some people, spending $65,000 is plenty for a piece of transportation and another $50,000 for a Porsche seems dumb. I can understand that line of thinking and it has merit. There are cars for all lifestyles and budgets.

I like all cars. I can admire a young man's 99 Jetta spouting 400hp because its a great example of taking what you have on a limited budget and trying to make the best of it. Same with the GTR. For $70,000 Im not sure you even have the right to criticize what it can and cannot do. Maybe its attractiveness is all. Other than that, its undercutting most of the world by $50-100-200,000 bucks. For a car company to put so much car in so little of a price point and back it with a warranty from the factory is nothing short of revolutionary. And that will make everyone else up their own game. Its a win-win for all.

911/Q45

I'm not sure we can live with such a reasoned argument!

OldGuy

Reasoned or not, I dont believe its insecurity on Porsche Owners. is the constant barage of press from the car hacks.
Outrageous! Nissna SPANKS Porsche 911 Turbo and Corvette Z06. Shouts Road and Track
Nissan GT-R ! 0-60 in 3.3! Exclaims Car and Driver

We just get tired of the hype
Believe me I think everyone is for competition because in the Long run the GT3 will be a better car
But there are some half truths out there about this car. its 4000lbs and it out brakes the 911. It has a
(supposedly) 20hp disadvantage vs the Porsche 911 TT and its faster by SECONDS around the track?
Now there are reports that the Ring Time was set with a "Japanese" version? Whats that mean?
530HP to the wheels? Special suspension or pure Slick Race tires? I dont care if a car comes along and
exceeds the GT3 performance but this thing (the GT-R) has broken all the records. At 1000 lbs heavier and less HP. Some one has to call it. Now there are reports that the US versison GT-R is less powerful and slower than the 911 TT which it SPANKED in the Road and Track (with Factory Nissan Driver)

340Elise

I know all of that. I already have lighter CCW 18" wheels, but the cheaper Toyo tires make up for the weight savings so I am back to square one. Better choice would be o get Champion RG5 and stick with the stock light weight rubber.

I agree, I also remember unsprung to be about X 4, espcially rotating.

You can do only so much with the wheel and brakes without spending $20K.

And the seats are a big deal. The ReVerie that I mentioned are about 90 lbs lighter than my stock GT3 seats.

I also just read the entire thread on 6speedOnline on the RSSMike project RS car where they changed a bunch of panels to CF. I was also interested in this, but not anymore. They only saved 119 lbs, and probably spent about $30 or 40K; and screwed up an RS in the meantime.

I also want to do simple items where I can go right back to stock. So I will probably do the battery, seats and a full lightweight exhau system. The rest will be carpeting, radio, and whatever else I can think of that is pretty easy to put back.

Stephen.

LERA GT2

Old Guy:
Can you imagine what non porsche people thought when "we" got six straight months of turbo, gt3 & rs covers of every magazine and then some!

UDPride

Perhaps Nissan is just smarter than everyone else. Could be the case. Im not naive' enough to think the only smart car people in the world speak German.

What you call hype I tend to call reporting. If this were a $75,000 Cayman lapping these times, nobody would be questioning anything. Its not like only one of two media outfits have reached the same conclusions on these performance numbers and lap times. Its pretty much universal. Its kind of a big news item when a car like this turns the plate upside down. What do you want them to report on? The new remote starter option for the Lexus ES?

I remember when the Boxster debuted. The face time in the rags was neverending. And that was for 200hp ragtop.

Maybe we're asking the wrong questions. Instead of asking "why is Nissan getting this much supposed power out of this car at this BHP rating and this curb weight", we should be asking "why isnt Porsche getting more performance out of its car considering the less weght and longer racing pedigree to skunkworks from?"