GT3 is faster than the RS
06-26-2007, 11:27 PM
#61
Originally Posted by OldGuy
02 Carrera
when you say laws of Physics were you talking about quantum physics or Newtonian physics?
Because the theory of specific relativity (only applies to rotating masses around PCCB brakes- as opposed to general relativity) comes into play when you talk about whom can get an RS at MSRP-The further you get away from MSRP the faster your money burns at the speed of light. And since most of us couldnt get one at MSRP that means the regular laws of physics dont apply -which means that if you actually bought a RS at $200K-- Then Your RS would actually be FASTER than a regular GT3 (based on color) in your mind.(its all relative)
Geesh you dont have to be an Einstein to figure that out!
when you say laws of Physics were you talking about quantum physics or Newtonian physics?
Because the theory of specific relativity (only applies to rotating masses around PCCB brakes- as opposed to general relativity) comes into play when you talk about whom can get an RS at MSRP-The further you get away from MSRP the faster your money burns at the speed of light. And since most of us couldnt get one at MSRP that means the regular laws of physics dont apply -which means that if you actually bought a RS at $200K-- Then Your RS would actually be FASTER than a regular GT3 (based on color) in your mind.(its all relative)
Geesh you dont have to be an Einstein to figure that out!
Oh yeah.... Who the hell is Einstein? 
06-26-2007, 11:30 PM
#62
Originally Posted by Jack
Doc,
I would never pay a premium for an RS, GT3 or an F-car, for that matter. MSRP is the price for which I got my RS ordered to my specs. And, if I was ordering a GT3 it would not be a stripper either -- life is too short for strippers.
I would never pay a premium for an RS, GT3 or an F-car, for that matter. MSRP is the price for which I got my RS ordered to my specs. And, if I was ordering a GT3 it would not be a stripper either -- life is too short for strippers.
Mags
06-27-2007, 12:25 AM
#63
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Jeff
Old guy comes from my mountain bike racing days (early 40's) and the kids I trained with used to
say "Whos the Old Guy at the back of the pack?"
Funny -they ask the same thing at the track nowadays!
Old guy comes from my mountain bike racing days (early 40's) and the kids I trained with used to
say "Whos the Old Guy at the back of the pack?"
Funny -they ask the same thing at the track nowadays!
06-27-2007, 02:08 AM
#64
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I came the the conclusion that the RS was not worth it. I gave up my RS spot for a regular GT3. Am I pissed about it, sure I am. I should have kept both. Sold the RS for $40K over and I would be into my GT3 $78K.
My regular old GT3 is just fine, I think it is has a little more daily driver feel to it than an RS would. A little more common, you know, an "anyone can have one" feel to it, suttle and off the radar. It is not an RS but man does it feel good, No big wing or racy script, but that's o.k. It works for me. I even let my dog ride in the back. I picked up a flat of strawberry's in it last week. No way I would have subject an RS to that kind of activity. I drove down a dirt road to get to the Stawberry patch, God forbid in an RS. If I had stepped up and got the real deal, the pitted windshield, rock chips, and coffee stains would have realy **** me off.
To me it is kind of like the lake house........ 1/2 the size of home, you can wear your shoes inside, the landscaping is a little edgy, needs a pressure wash, roof leaks and there isn't any Granite on the counter tops, but I enjoy it more than home??? Go figure.
My regular old GT3 is just fine, I think it is has a little more daily driver feel to it than an RS would. A little more common, you know, an "anyone can have one" feel to it, suttle and off the radar. It is not an RS but man does it feel good, No big wing or racy script, but that's o.k. It works for me. I even let my dog ride in the back. I picked up a flat of strawberry's in it last week. No way I would have subject an RS to that kind of activity. I drove down a dirt road to get to the Stawberry patch, God forbid in an RS. If I had stepped up and got the real deal, the pitted windshield, rock chips, and coffee stains would have realy **** me off.
To me it is kind of like the lake house........ 1/2 the size of home, you can wear your shoes inside, the landscaping is a little edgy, needs a pressure wash, roof leaks and there isn't any Granite on the counter tops, but I enjoy it more than home??? Go figure.
06-27-2007, 02:30 AM
#65
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Joe there is a lot of wisdom in your words. I dropped mine off a jack and if it was an RS I would have flipped-minor damage but still I didnt throw up or anything. Forgot to even tell the wife.
I dont know how I would have reacted had I had a RS slot though.
But on our mountain condo its exactly the opposite- we keep it surgically clean and our house is a mess. I guess my wife feels she has more control over our condo and has lost control of the house with the 3 boys (me and our 17 and 12 year olds) 2 dogs, a cat and Lizzy the lizard.
I dont know how I would have reacted had I had a RS slot though.
But on our mountain condo its exactly the opposite- we keep it surgically clean and our house is a mess. I guess my wife feels she has more control over our condo and has lost control of the house with the 3 boys (me and our 17 and 12 year olds) 2 dogs, a cat and Lizzy the lizard.
06-27-2007, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by OldGuy
Jack
my point exactly -I would have loved an RS at MSRP- but have not the clout of the 299 most fiscally powerful people in North America
my point exactly -I would have loved an RS at MSRP- but have not the clout of the 299 most fiscally powerful people in North America
06-27-2007, 03:23 AM
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Sparky since your in California I can tell you what I experienced since you'll know the areas I am talking about-
My dealer I go to is in Bakersfield- I asked to put a deposit on a RS-He didnt get one- (in fact he told me I couldnt buy the one GT3 he was getting)
So I called LA to several dealers and was told I would be 7th or 8th on the list because of prior customers who get first dibs even though I was ahead of them in asking. Basically I had no pull anywhere-I have had 4 porsches in my whole life and one new-this GT3.
Then I helped a friend spec out a car in the midwest He has bought many Pcars from his dealer- He sent in a 5k deposit-this was in 06 or late 05 I cant remember-once things became more clear to the dealers and they started getting an idea of the market they sent back his deposit-He only had a handshake and a CC reciept. No pro forma-He was told he was free to get the car for $60 over MSRP
At that point I gave up and decided I would have a better chance at a regular GT3- I live 100 miles from Bakersfield and 150 miles from any LA dealer. And even then if it werent for Mooty (he lives up there by you) I would have got raped by any dealer in California -
I did call some dealers back east too and they had buyers there and didnt want to worry about shipping. Both on GT3s and RS's
I know guys here who have been repeat customers at their dealers including Mooty who got their RS's at MSRP
but I am not fiscally powerfull enough to do that.
And even if I had been a repeat customer at Bakersfield they didnt even get one for me to buy if I got lucky enough to be first on the list.
After what happened to my friend in the midwest and my experience in SoCal and east of here I felt I had no shot. I spent days working on this and then gave up.
I am glad for you though- I am sure regular people got lucky like but I bet that was an anomaly and not the norm-based on my limited experience.
I was sorta kidding around with Jack and Magwheel too( about fiscally powerful)- although both have collections to die for.
My dealer I go to is in Bakersfield- I asked to put a deposit on a RS-He didnt get one- (in fact he told me I couldnt buy the one GT3 he was getting)
So I called LA to several dealers and was told I would be 7th or 8th on the list because of prior customers who get first dibs even though I was ahead of them in asking. Basically I had no pull anywhere-I have had 4 porsches in my whole life and one new-this GT3.
Then I helped a friend spec out a car in the midwest He has bought many Pcars from his dealer- He sent in a 5k deposit-this was in 06 or late 05 I cant remember-once things became more clear to the dealers and they started getting an idea of the market they sent back his deposit-He only had a handshake and a CC reciept. No pro forma-He was told he was free to get the car for $60 over MSRP
At that point I gave up and decided I would have a better chance at a regular GT3- I live 100 miles from Bakersfield and 150 miles from any LA dealer. And even then if it werent for Mooty (he lives up there by you) I would have got raped by any dealer in California -
I did call some dealers back east too and they had buyers there and didnt want to worry about shipping. Both on GT3s and RS's
I know guys here who have been repeat customers at their dealers including Mooty who got their RS's at MSRP
but I am not fiscally powerfull enough to do that.
And even if I had been a repeat customer at Bakersfield they didnt even get one for me to buy if I got lucky enough to be first on the list.
After what happened to my friend in the midwest and my experience in SoCal and east of here I felt I had no shot. I spent days working on this and then gave up.
I am glad for you though- I am sure regular people got lucky like but I bet that was an anomaly and not the norm-based on my limited experience.
I was sorta kidding around with Jack and Magwheel too( about fiscally powerful)- although both have collections to die for.
06-27-2007, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 02 Carrera
Keep in mind this is a US GT3 vs US GT3 RS. In Europe, the GT3 RS comes standard with lightweight racing seats, plastic instead of glass rear window and a standard absence of A/C. In the US, we don't get the lightweight seats or rear glass and the A/C delete is an option. Yes, some of the body parts like the lid and spoiler are lighter being carbon, but also keep in mind the the RS is a widebody which is heavier than the narrow body. So bascially, this evens it out. The RS uses the same coilovers, sway bars, brakes, wheels and tires as the regular GT3. Also has anyone else noticed that the base curb weights between the GT3 and the RS is 44 lbs (20 kg), but this is for the GT3 with A/C and the RS without. Porsche has plainly stated that the lack of A/C save exactly 44 lbs (20 kg). Hmm...not much of a difference for the dollars. If fact, it would be rediculous to have an RS unless it had the A/C delete and PCCB brakes as options. After all, the whole intent is for lighter weight.
One other thing is for top speed and acceleration, aerodynamic forces increase at a cubed rate. As a fact, weight has nothing to do with top speed. Instead top speed is determined by hp versus coefficient of friction times frontal area. There is a factor here since the RS is built as a wide body and has a greater frontal area. Since the GT3 and RS both have the same coefficient of drag, but the RS has a bigger frontal area; it is physically impossible (by the laws of physics) for an RS to accelerate at high speed at the same rate as the regular GT3.
I have to agree that the $17K is a lot to pay for some graphics, colored wheels, wheel spacers and split control arms, but I don't belive bringing the RS to the US was done for performance. It was really done for marketing and profits. Look what has happened to the majority of the RS's that have come into the country: they have either ended up in collector hands or by resellers looking to make a quick buck, not in the hands of anyone capable of using the cars to there true potential. It doesn't really matter in the end if there is a perfomance improvement with the RS or not, only that a few BELIEVE there is to justify the extra money. Porsche is in the business of selling cars after all. Porsche has certainly accomplished this. The regular GT3's on the other hand, do see to be getting more into the right hands. I recently did a track weekend where I got to run with 4 of them.
I hope the next generation RS will be more in the true spirit of the RS cars of the 70's: at least a couple hundred lbs lighter and include more race oriented bits from the RSR, somthing more deserving the higher exclusivity and price.
One other thing is for top speed and acceleration, aerodynamic forces increase at a cubed rate. As a fact, weight has nothing to do with top speed. Instead top speed is determined by hp versus coefficient of friction times frontal area. There is a factor here since the RS is built as a wide body and has a greater frontal area. Since the GT3 and RS both have the same coefficient of drag, but the RS has a bigger frontal area; it is physically impossible (by the laws of physics) for an RS to accelerate at high speed at the same rate as the regular GT3.
I have to agree that the $17K is a lot to pay for some graphics, colored wheels, wheel spacers and split control arms, but I don't belive bringing the RS to the US was done for performance. It was really done for marketing and profits. Look what has happened to the majority of the RS's that have come into the country: they have either ended up in collector hands or by resellers looking to make a quick buck, not in the hands of anyone capable of using the cars to there true potential. It doesn't really matter in the end if there is a perfomance improvement with the RS or not, only that a few BELIEVE there is to justify the extra money. Porsche is in the business of selling cars after all. Porsche has certainly accomplished this. The regular GT3's on the other hand, do see to be getting more into the right hands. I recently did a track weekend where I got to run with 4 of them.
I hope the next generation RS will be more in the true spirit of the RS cars of the 70's: at least a couple hundred lbs lighter and include more race oriented bits from the RSR, somthing more deserving the higher exclusivity and price.
Absence of A/C is not standard on Euro RS's....
It comes equpped on the car as standard, and you physically have to remove it when speccing the car, if you do not want it fitted...
Therefore, specified weights of the car INLCLUDE A/C
G.
06-27-2007, 09:50 AM
#71
I can't believe the garbage on here.
Sorry 02 Carrera your info is wrong, and who ever said that your post was thoughtful needs someone to make sure he is taking his medication.
I'm sorry for all you people who couldnt get an RS and had to settle for a regular GT3, but quit whining about it.
As good as the GT3 is the RS is the better car. So if it makes you guys feel better to "bash" it go ahead, but I'd prefer if John D set up a separate section and call it "RS bash" you guys have obviously never seen an RS in the flesh.
Sorry 02 Carrera your info is wrong, and who ever said that your post was thoughtful needs someone to make sure he is taking his medication.
I'm sorry for all you people who couldnt get an RS and had to settle for a regular GT3, but quit whining about it.
As good as the GT3 is the RS is the better car. So if it makes you guys feel better to "bash" it go ahead, but I'd prefer if John D set up a separate section and call it "RS bash" you guys have obviously never seen an RS in the flesh.
06-27-2007, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RR
I can't believe the garbage on here.
Sorry 02 Carrera your info is wrong, and who ever said that your post was thoughtful needs someone to make sure he is taking his medication.
I'm sorry for all you people who couldnt get an RS and had to settle for a regular GT3, but quit whining about it.
As good as the GT3 is the RS is the better car. So if it makes you guys feel better to "bash" it go ahead, but I'd prefer if John D set up a separate section and call it "RS bash" you guys have obviously never seen an RS in the flesh.
Sorry 02 Carrera your info is wrong, and who ever said that your post was thoughtful needs someone to make sure he is taking his medication.
I'm sorry for all you people who couldnt get an RS and had to settle for a regular GT3, but quit whining about it.
As good as the GT3 is the RS is the better car. So if it makes you guys feel better to "bash" it go ahead, but I'd prefer if John D set up a separate section and call it "RS bash" you guys have obviously never seen an RS in the flesh.
06-27-2007, 10:55 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by RR
I'm sorry for all you people who couldnt get an RS and had to settle for a regular GT3, but quit whining about it.
06-27-2007, 11:01 AM
#74
Sorry but I'm getting tired of someone posting their opinions or thoughts on here without qualifying it and then having others assume that its correct and agreeing with it. The tune of 02's post was one of fact and not opinion.
