Charles Navarro

Sorry, we do not record the factory serial number. The block would have a four or six digit serial number added to the block that corresponds to the job,

andy bell

This post is aimed to share my recent experience with rebuilding of Porsche 3.8L Direct injection engine.

Originally my 2009 Carrera was sold in Texas but was shipped to Europe and spend most of its days there. I have modified it in 2017-18 at 25000 miles with B&B cross pipe, Cargraphic headers+200 cell metal cats, K&N filters, IPD intake and EVO MS tune. Making over 400hp at the crank car was noticeably faster than stock, however it lasted till I hit unrestricted Autobahn in Germany. After driving for about 1.5hr at nearly full throttle, I got a check engine light first and next day I heard a loud knocking sound coming at right rear of the engine. Car was shipped to Hamburg where Porsche specialist discovered bore scoring on cyl no.4 According to those guys, they see 5-6 out of 10 cars of first generation 997 and 1 out of 10 of 997.2 generation developing those issues including newer Turbo 3.8 motors. Not an encouraging news to hear for all of Porsche owners. My options were to buy new short block engine for about $10k or repair the original one. I have opted for the latter particularly considering that it could give an opportunity to enlarge size to over 4.0l. This route was not easy task and in total it took many months to complete. As I wanted to have one shop – full responsibility type of work, Hartech and US based builders were out of question. Something interesting came up that in Germany due to strict environmental restrictions galvanization, nickel electroplating, etc are severely restricted. Thus engine block was send to UK to F1 engine specialists Capricorn for 103 mm boring and Nikasil coating. Custom Mahle pistons and rings were ordered as well as custom head gaskets.

This project was assemebled and tuned at MTM in Wettstetin with some involvement from 9FF.

Engine showed 430hp @ 7298rpm and 470Nm @ 5090 rpm of torque at the crank. Not a huge jump from my previous 410ish setup, but noticeable. Most importantly the torque curve profile shifted and increased earlier in low rpm range allowing for comfortable cruise in 6th gear. My secret wish for AWD GT3 finally came through…)

Few important observations:

- before breakdown, car was in winter mode with many cold starts and warm ups and minimal driving. Such starts might have diluted original 0W40 as I did not change it before hammering on autobahn. Oil was 4000miles / 10 months old

- car now runs of Mobil1 5W50 and so far after 2k miles I cant see any oil consumption.

- EVO MS software had KNOCK SENSORS FULLY DISCONNECTED and in opinion of German tuners were contributing factor to engine failure (yes I would like my money back if EVO reading this)

- car actually runs quieter than before with about 10% improved gas mileage.

- most difficult part was to obtain new oil squirt nozzles for piston cooling. Porsche sells them only together with new engine block. Old one can not be reused.



I might be forgetting something but hope this story might be useful for some readers here.

PV997

Interesting info, thanks for posting. The quote above about the tune and the knock sensors is pretty alarming if you're sure it's true. How were they able to determine this? Was it through testing or a review of the code?

andy bell

yes, 100% sure. They thoroughly examined it. It cost me arm and a leg to retune because tuner did not want to fix this EVO MS file and Original Porsche soft was purchased and then customized for larger engine.

Sporty

"After driving for about 1.5hr at nearly full throttle, I got a check engine light first and next day I heard a loud knocking sound coming at right rear of the engine"
"car was in winter mode with many cold starts and warm ups and minimal driving"

Uhhh that and 4k+ old oil might've had something to do with it as well...just sayin'

rtl5009

Naw.

andy bell

yep, giving you guys all the details...

Bavarian 997

Hi guys,
my 997 C2S (2007, 70k miles) is running great, no problems.
No ticking
No smoking
No sooty pipes
Low oil consumption (under 100ml/1000km / under 0.15 quarts/1000 miles)
I was curious and had it endoscoped.
This is the result: bore scoring!
What do you guys think? Is this in the beginning or already further down the road?
I will continue to drive the car as normal and if it gets symptoms I will have it revised and upgraded to 4.1l Whether that is in 5k miles or 50k miles, I remain relaxed.

Cheers,
The Bavarian

jchapura

Hey Bavarian, Although cylinders' 1 and 4 marks look pretty deep, did they use the "fingernail technique", or something else, to check the depth of the scratches (to confirm not just scuffing)?

Curious minds (want to know)...

rtl5009

Not trying to be the bearer of bad news here but my neighbor has been looking at 997.1’s for 2 years now since I got mine and I have him educated. Every single one he has had scoped has had bore scoring. One didn’t even get scoped cause when they dropped the pan there was so much metal in the pan the tech was like I don’t think we should sell this car lol. It got pumped through auction and is at a small private dealer lot now. What’s interesting is the metal in the pan one passed my listening for the tap test with flying colors.

I have come to the realization that possibly all the cars out there have this to some extent, the % of people who are looking themselves in the right manner is just small. I received a complete new long block from Porsche thanks to fidelity and I am still putting away to do a nickies rebuild. I hope this block lasts long enough for me to do it with my son one days (hes only 16 months now lol), but hey if it happens before no biggie.

rtl5009

These look like they are through the plug hole. There is no way to do that through the spark plug hole. You could try to get the camera tip to contact the cylinder and then try and feel it through the extension "arm". Through the pan you could possibly do this with a wooden dial rod up into cylinder 3 (non thrust side) and 6 (thrust side), you couldn't do it to any others.

Bavarian 997

Hi John,

yes, I also think cylinder 4 is the worst but it is difficult to judge from the images how deep the scratches really are. They garage didn't do a fingernail test just the endoscopy and wanted to overhaul the engine immediately but I only do that when there are serious symptoms. Spending 15-20k for a revision for an engine that runs great? No. In a German Porsche Forum a member drove almost 100k miles with an increased oil consumption and sooty tailpipes and then rebuilt the engine.

Cheers
The Bavarian

jchapura

To me this is the proper position (for those with limited means). I bet the majority of 997.1s have scoring but it is cosmetic or with minimal additional symptoms.
Wait and watch - rebuild or replace after the symptoms cross some owner-defined threshold. Or, just "run it into the ground" if the "value proposition" says so in the coming years.

Coolwnc

I just had my 2005 C2 engine nickie treated and is almost completely back together! The scoring was heavy on #6 cylinder. Car had light scoot on driver side exhaust tailpipe. Engine ran great, no crazy noise, very little oil use. Reason for my rebuild was that someone in the past had an upgrade IMS bearing replaced and damaged the seat where it installs. Service company recommended IMS shaft replacement....so here I go $$$.

PV997

Whole-heartedly agree. I really don't get this scoping an engine with no symptoms stuff (unless buying or selling), that goes double for rebuilding it. What is the upside? It's not like it's cancer and if you catch it early you can stop it from spreading. It won't grenade your engine and who knows, you may be able to get another 30k miles (or more) before symptoms show up. Plus there is always the chance of a false positive where something looks like a score but doesn't have depth. Then, like in the Bavarian's case, once something is seen it's immediately fodder to push for an expensive rebuild.

Not saying it's not a real issue but why go looking for it when finding it early provides no benefit? When there are no symptoms? Use the common sense precautions that have been outlined here many times and enjoy the car.