Flat6 Innovations

Yep, no worries. Usually my lead time takes the option here, because few people are willing to wait, and I refuse to rush.

G.I.G.

Sorry to hear this, but glad you are covered with a warranty.

I'm curious if you can share some additional details about what happened. How did the symptoms start to present themselves and who ultimately determined it was bore scoring (you or your shop)? I was also wondering what part of the country you're in.

Best of luck with the repair!

T4S

Motor will have new heads. I'm electing to do clutch and injectors. Car and repair done in the Seattle area. Car ramped up in oil consumption this winter. Adding quart -> 550 miles
Potentially will add more detail and follow up in dedicated thread.

Steve44

Had a PPI today on an 08 CS4 with 67K. Came back with significant and deep scoring on cylinder's 5 and 6. It also needs a new clutch and rear bumper-only mention because the dealer should have known both.
Asked the (not Porsche) dealer if they would discount the car, they said no. I was considering having the motor re built, but of course, not when I pay blue book for the car.
The dealer has the car back for sale on their lot, knowing of this potential catastrophic issue. SMH!
I am waiting on advice from a legal friend on whether I can post the VIN # and dealership. I'd hate to see anyone get burned on this car.

Flat6 Innovations

Classic one there.. Awareness saved you a ton of money and heartache.. People can call what we do “fear mongering” all they want, but the fact is, it saves people huge losses.

Steve44

True, Jake. Thanks to everyone on the board who have contributed to the knowledge base. I would not have thought to have the cylinders checked otherwise.

JustinCase

This is why I think it seems like there is more visibility for cars with scored engines than the actual numbers warrant. Once someone realizes they just bought a car with a scored engine, the path of least cost causes them to quietly trade the car in where no one is likely to notice. Not pretty from a moral point of view, but realistic. This may be why there is actually a *lower percentage* of scored engines than most people seem to fear and perceive (note all those on Rennlist who have had their car 997.1 3.8L car for over 100,000 with no issues), but a much *higher publicity* for the scoring issue precisely because the constant churning of defective cars means an artificially *higher percentage* of defective cars are *for sale.* To Jake's point, CAVEAT EMPTOR!

I have had brand new PCA members come up to me during a club tour who, having just bought a "new" used C2S, tentatively ask me about my oil mileage.

When I discovered my car had a scored engine, I was shocked at the number of people who counseled me to quietly trade it in or sell it on the street (I saved up and paid for the engine to be rebuilt, instead). Luckily, I really like my car, so I can amortize my repair expenses by keeping and using my car for a very long time. Part of this is true, so don't disturb me about my rationalization of the rest.

G.I.G.

If you have the pics of the bore scope, do you mind posting them? I’m curious what they considered “serious and deep”. Did they scope from the sump or did they pull the spark plugs and scope from the top?

Also, do you mind sharing what part of the country the car is in?

Flat6 Innovations

Here’s a recent example of what we see from trouble tickets. In his attached video it is clear that he has bore scoring, and it is advanced.

Notice the “it has no check lights” and “it runs great”. He is currently in the denial stage of failure. The engine can “run fine” and there’s no diagnostic trouble code for bore scoring. That means “no check lights. Note that he has only had the car since November.

Also note there’s no mention of a proper PPI being carried out at the time of purchase~

Steve44

Great ponts, all.
The car I was going to buy was the car I wanted. Why I was willing to buy and re build (at or near appropriate price for the damaged motor).
But for the dealer to just says "no". Absolutely no negotiation. Because he knows what he has-a good price on a CS4 with an appealing color combo and nice option packages. He WILL find a buyer at that price.
Also, and this is pathetic, his justification was "The Porsche community has so much noise with IMS and bore scoring and it's all exaggerated". So he purposefully conflates IMS with bore scoring. One of course has nothing to do with the other. And IMS is a failure that might happen. The bore scoring on his car that he is going to sell is confirmed. Making this car a likely failure for the person willing to walk in to his dealership and give him 40K or more with star crossed eyes.
Dick move, pal. Karma really is a bitch. And eventually, she will come for you, eventually.
I'm with you, Justin. Better to be honest, as much as that can be a financial burden. And the Karma gods do smile upon you every time you enjoy driving your car. Cool deal!
Steve

Steve44

Hi,
I should be getting pics Monday. The shop performing the PPI company said they would send.
I will out this guy if I can. Still waiting to seen if that a good idea for me.

Doug H

Is it true? I would say the guy is dang near committing a crime selling a car he knows needs a new engine without disclosure of that fact. I am NOT giving legal advise and probably do not practice in your state, but I bet Google could tell you if truth was a defense to libel. By all means, check with your lawyer or someone licensed in your state.

PV997

T4S - Please keep us posted and if you happen to get photos of the cylinder(s) it would be appreciated. Curious if this is the M9X style scoring (one side of piston, skirt center, coating flaky) or the 9A1 seizing Baz has described (both sides of piston, toward edge of skirt rather than center). On another thread Baz said he's seen five of these cases, all early 9A1 MY engines, all occurred in cold weather. Jake's video with Bronz's engine showed the same "both sides" pattern.

Flat6 Innovations

He is waiting for the right buyer that “wants his dream car” and isn’t informed. He’ll find his victim, and then his victim will find me.

capman71

Purchased in 2009 with 17k on the odometer. Drove in Switzerland, and was in periods used for daily commute, which was 30 km each way, otherwise vacation drives of 2000-3000 km over a week or so.
In 2017 at 89k a big, white smoke cloud from the lefthand side exhaust appearsduring a drive on the autobahn at 130 km/t.. Porsche Center Kiel immediately suspects scored cylinder, quotes repair at Eur 28K. Take it to a reputable Danish indy Porsche specialist (I had relocated), who inspects in it and finds no scoring, changes the oil separator (Eur 3.5K). I drive 800 km, ticking noise appears and I take it to the indy again. Scored cylinder 6. Complete overhaul, new cylinders, IMS at Eur 12K incl discount. Drives 1000 km (600km, 200 and a few short trips), keeps it under 3'500 rpm, soot from the righthand side. Turns out there is an issue with the cylinder ring in cylinder 3. Fixed under repair warranty at indy. Drives 200 km (a few short trips). Still very sooty from the lefthand exhaust, and noticeable light smoke when driving off from traffic lights.

Oh, and the battery went dead after 4-5 days unused until Porsche Lausanne finally gave up a disabled the phone module.

Not too happy with Porsche right now. These are the issues that Germanpohiles point their finger at on Italian cars; my Maserati 3200 had zero issues. - I know, anecdotal evidence... My 1st gen Cayenne had perpetual issues with the electronics and front lights.