997s deals around the interwebz (no affiliation)
05-03-2019, 09:22 AM
#4861
Rennlist Member
Dude at that dealer is SHADY! He wanted to buy my 991.2, asked me to pull the ad down because "he had to prepay for shipping" which is a lie. That loser cost me a lot of time. In the end, he said "sorry, shipping will be several thousand, I can't afford the car". Yeah right, we all know that shipping a car 700 miles is not several thousand bucks. He thought he had the car sold and that he could flip it to his buyer, hence the reason he wanted me to delete the ad. Moral of story:
1) never pull a car off the market without a deposit
2) don't do business with All Things Porsche
1) never pull a car off the market without a deposit
2) don't do business with All Things Porsche
05-03-2019, 12:28 PM
#4862
that is ridiculous. I had the chance to buy a 2012 GTS 4 coupe in midnight blue with sport seats and CL's (manual), CPO'd last year for $72,900, but it had 38,500 miles, not 30k. It was a reasonable buy, but I didn't want a 4 this time around.
Then again, there are plenty of people out there with more money than they know what to do with. The same, say 3 carat H color VS2 diamond, ideally cut, could be anywhere from $65,000 to $320,000, depending on whether it is being sold at Whiteflash or Harry Winston. Most shoppers are clueless and don't understand that they are buying the same product either way: what makes buying cars any different?
Then again, there are plenty of people out there with more money than they know what to do with. The same, say 3 carat H color VS2 diamond, ideally cut, could be anywhere from $65,000 to $320,000, depending on whether it is being sold at Whiteflash or Harry Winston. Most shoppers are clueless and don't understand that they are buying the same product either way: what makes buying cars any different?
My analogy was that lab diamonds are like the Aston continuation cars or Shelby American Cobra CSX recreations whereas CZ and moissanite are like a Fiero kit car. The former can only be detected with thorough analysis while the later can be detected with the naked eye.
Anyways - that was a darn good deal for a 4GTS.
05-03-2019, 12:36 PM
#4863
Three Wheelin'
Great diamond analogy. I used one in a diamond forum recently when discussing lab diamonds vs. natural diamonds vs simulants.
My analogy was that lab diamonds are like the Aston continuation cars or Shelby American Cobra CSX recreations whereas CZ and moissanite are like a Fiero kit car. The former can only be detected with thorough analysis while the later can be detected with the naked eye.
Anyways - that was a darn good deal for a 4GTS.
My analogy was that lab diamonds are like the Aston continuation cars or Shelby American Cobra CSX recreations whereas CZ and moissanite are like a Fiero kit car. The former can only be detected with thorough analysis while the later can be detected with the naked eye.
Anyways - that was a darn good deal for a 4GTS.
05-03-2019, 12:38 PM
#4864
Three Wheelin'
Great diamond analogy. I used one in a diamond forum recently when discussing lab diamonds vs. natural diamonds vs simulants.
My analogy was that lab diamonds are like the Aston continuation cars or Shelby American Cobra CSX recreations whereas CZ and moissanite are like a Fiero kit car. The former can only be detected with thorough analysis while the later can be detected with the naked eye.
Anyways - that was a darn good deal for a 4GTS.
My analogy was that lab diamonds are like the Aston continuation cars or Shelby American Cobra CSX recreations whereas CZ and moissanite are like a Fiero kit car. The former can only be detected with thorough analysis while the later can be detected with the naked eye.
Anyways - that was a darn good deal for a 4GTS.
05-03-2019, 12:48 PM
#4865
Three Wheelin'
I think your post is valid but you totally lost me on the $10k premium for a GTS over a C2S, all else being the same. That’s just not true and not what the market says. C2S are readily available, even more so in PDK. The market shrinks for the C4S and substantially more for the GTS. If the changes are not worth it to you, you’ve saved yourself some coin. But please do not lump together your priorities with everyone else’s.
I sold my 2009 C2S with 12,000 miles for $59,500. It did not have sport seats or sport suspension. Manual as well. MSRP $103k.
Add in $9,000 for the 3 years in age difference (these cars drop $3k/year on average per M/Y), subtract $3,500 for the additional mileage (roughly $3k/10k mile ratio) and already we are at an adjusted price of $65k for the C2S and $74k for the GTS. This does not factor in that the GTS's spec was more desirable (talking about options here: sport seats and sport PASM, which are hard to find on a C2S but bring the values of those cars up.
That is a difference of $9k. Even if you "assume" that the GTS went cheap and should have been priced higher (say $78k), we have a difference of $13k, but a C2S with 18-ways and Sport PASM would have also pulled more money, probably $3k.
Voila: $10,000 spread. If you can find a low mile 2012 C2S with these desirable options for mid to high 60's, you will be right on market: such a car would be priced at $68k or so private party.
Critical thinking and logical reasoning skills are useful here; math skills help too. You may not agree with my numbers; try running your own next time instead of jumping to assumptions.
05-05-2019, 10:19 AM
#4866
Rennlist Member
2007 Turbo tiptronic no accidents with less than 20,000 miles for 68,000?
https://www.goodeford.com/used-Burle...AD29997S785817
Burley, Idaho is very rural.... they probably dont move too many used Porsches.
https://www.goodeford.com/used-Burle...AD29997S785817
Burley, Idaho is very rural.... they probably dont move too many used Porsches.
05-05-2019, 11:22 AM
#4867
Racer
2009 Porsche 911 S Cab, 32.k.miles, PDK, Silver/Black, Sport Chrono - $55988 (Intersport Performance)
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...875300839.html
05-05-2019, 11:25 AM
#4868
Racer
2011 Porsche 911 GTS, cpe, pdk, blk/blk, 48kmi, sprt exst, sprt chrn - $73988
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...875257740.html
05-05-2019, 11:48 AM
#4869
Rennlist Member
2007 Turbo tiptronic no accidents with less than 20,000 miles for 68,000?
https://www.goodeford.com/used-Burle...AD29997S785817
Burley, Idaho is very rural.... they probably dont move too many used Porsches.
https://www.goodeford.com/used-Burle...AD29997S785817
Burley, Idaho is very rural.... they probably dont move too many used Porsches.
05-05-2019, 03:34 PM
#4870
2007 Turbo tiptronic no accidents with less than 20,000 miles for 68,000?
https://www.goodeford.com/used-Burle...AD29997S785817
Burley, Idaho is very rural.... they probably dont move too many used Porsches.
https://www.goodeford.com/used-Burle...AD29997S785817
Burley, Idaho is very rural.... they probably dont move too many used Porsches.
There are some really nice houses south of Burley, up towards Pomerelle ski area. It is within an easy drive to both Sun Valley and Jackson Hole as well, so not a bad place to live!
05-05-2019, 07:08 PM
#4871
Rennlist Member
I can't get over these GTS prices.
05-05-2019, 09:02 PM
#4872
Three Wheelin'
https://houston.craigslist.org/ctd/d...881320050.html
Interesting spec on this one and I love the color. Has some nice options.
Interesting spec on this one and I love the color. Has some nice options.
05-05-2019, 10:14 PM
#4873
Rennlist Member
Ive been casually observing the market like many on here, and I stand by my observation that the spread between a .2 C2S and a GTS is not $10k. A nice C2S is low $50s. I have not seen a GTS in the low $60s in a very long time. A good .2 C4S is low $60s at this time. Carry on.
05-07-2019, 11:38 AM
#4874
Figured I would offer some input on this after I just sold my 997.2 C2S which was a relatively high optioned car and would have cost as much new as a GTS.
When I started looking for cars at the beginning of 2017, I was noticing the following, most 997.2 C2S were $55-65k, 997.2 C4S were $60-70k and most GTS' were $60-75k. This was dependent on manual vs PDK, seats, condition, mileage, etc, the normal stuff you would be looking at when trying to buy a car.
Finding a high option 997.2 C2S is not easy, most of the higher optioned cars were C4S' or Turbos. Also finding a high optioned, full leather, sport seat, GTS was not easy and those cars were going to be $70k+ at least.
Around June of 2017 I reached out to a Rennlist member after seeing a post mentioning that he may be considering selling his car. His was a Platinum Silver Aerokit GTS over Full Red Leather interior with Adaptive Sport Seats and a 6 speed. I was offered this car for around $70k. Since I was looking for a PDK, I passed this car up and someone else very quickly picked it up and the dealer proceeded to list it for $90k on their website. Later in the year I reached out to various dealers about GTS'. One was a white over black 43k mile GTS, I thought it had track time though so I decided against it. This car was being offered originally at $59k and I think they raised the price at one point to $62k. It was a well optioned car too and had adaptive sport seats, but was missing SPASM with the rear diff.
There was also this black/black GTS which was very high optioned, I am attaching the link here. Ended up asking $64k for it after it was on the market for some time. https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...gts-coupe.html
My 997.2 C2S with PSE, SPASM, PDK, Full Leather was offered to me with CPO for $64,450 in January 2018. I ended up buying it. This is the top of the market though for a C2S, but as I just sold my car, it is now being offered for $60k which is a much more normal number since it just has remaining CPO warranty left, which I don't even believe would transfer since it is being sold through a Porsche dealer.
I had a launch edition C4S with buckets offered to me for $55k December of 2017.
There was a 991.1 C2S with a $122k sticker inclusive of SPASM, PSE, Full Leather, Sport Seats with 38k miles for $61k. I drove the car and it was great but I decided I wanted a 997.2. This was bottom of the market though and the dealer selling it had just taken it in on trade for a Range Rover, so I don't think they knew what they had. That car sold within a couple of days. I had driven it right when they got it in.
My point here is that the market is varied. I have seen GTS' being offered for $115k with 30k miles like what someone posted above, I have seen them in the $50s with some mileage. The GTS that you probably actually want to buy is going to be in the $70s. The C2S you actually want to buy is going to be mid to upper $50s. The problem is that most C2S are not high optioned and have relatively low stickers compared to a GTS in comparison, let's say a C2S is going to have a $102k sticker with a GTS having a $115k sticker. I would hope that they would have a $10k premium on the GTS not only for the initial sticker price but also for the uncommonness of the car. I don't think in the past year I have seen one 997.2 GTS on the road, but I have definitely seen some base Carrera's and Carrera S'. Either way, buy what you like. If you can afford the GTS and the overall combination of parts along with the wide body and center lock wheels means something to you, then go for it. If you were looking for a high optioned Carrera, whether that be a C2S, C4S or GTS, then go for that. However, be warned, you are going to get more on trade for a GTS rather than a high optioned C2S. The dealers in general are going to tell you that the options don't mean anything whereas the GTS being a completely separate model is going to carry a premium to it.
When I started looking for cars at the beginning of 2017, I was noticing the following, most 997.2 C2S were $55-65k, 997.2 C4S were $60-70k and most GTS' were $60-75k. This was dependent on manual vs PDK, seats, condition, mileage, etc, the normal stuff you would be looking at when trying to buy a car.
Finding a high option 997.2 C2S is not easy, most of the higher optioned cars were C4S' or Turbos. Also finding a high optioned, full leather, sport seat, GTS was not easy and those cars were going to be $70k+ at least.
Around June of 2017 I reached out to a Rennlist member after seeing a post mentioning that he may be considering selling his car. His was a Platinum Silver Aerokit GTS over Full Red Leather interior with Adaptive Sport Seats and a 6 speed. I was offered this car for around $70k. Since I was looking for a PDK, I passed this car up and someone else very quickly picked it up and the dealer proceeded to list it for $90k on their website. Later in the year I reached out to various dealers about GTS'. One was a white over black 43k mile GTS, I thought it had track time though so I decided against it. This car was being offered originally at $59k and I think they raised the price at one point to $62k. It was a well optioned car too and had adaptive sport seats, but was missing SPASM with the rear diff.
There was also this black/black GTS which was very high optioned, I am attaching the link here. Ended up asking $64k for it after it was on the market for some time. https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...gts-coupe.html
My 997.2 C2S with PSE, SPASM, PDK, Full Leather was offered to me with CPO for $64,450 in January 2018. I ended up buying it. This is the top of the market though for a C2S, but as I just sold my car, it is now being offered for $60k which is a much more normal number since it just has remaining CPO warranty left, which I don't even believe would transfer since it is being sold through a Porsche dealer.
I had a launch edition C4S with buckets offered to me for $55k December of 2017.
There was a 991.1 C2S with a $122k sticker inclusive of SPASM, PSE, Full Leather, Sport Seats with 38k miles for $61k. I drove the car and it was great but I decided I wanted a 997.2. This was bottom of the market though and the dealer selling it had just taken it in on trade for a Range Rover, so I don't think they knew what they had. That car sold within a couple of days. I had driven it right when they got it in.
My point here is that the market is varied. I have seen GTS' being offered for $115k with 30k miles like what someone posted above, I have seen them in the $50s with some mileage. The GTS that you probably actually want to buy is going to be in the $70s. The C2S you actually want to buy is going to be mid to upper $50s. The problem is that most C2S are not high optioned and have relatively low stickers compared to a GTS in comparison, let's say a C2S is going to have a $102k sticker with a GTS having a $115k sticker. I would hope that they would have a $10k premium on the GTS not only for the initial sticker price but also for the uncommonness of the car. I don't think in the past year I have seen one 997.2 GTS on the road, but I have definitely seen some base Carrera's and Carrera S'. Either way, buy what you like. If you can afford the GTS and the overall combination of parts along with the wide body and center lock wheels means something to you, then go for it. If you were looking for a high optioned Carrera, whether that be a C2S, C4S or GTS, then go for that. However, be warned, you are going to get more on trade for a GTS rather than a high optioned C2S. The dealers in general are going to tell you that the options don't mean anything whereas the GTS being a completely separate model is going to carry a premium to it.
05-07-2019, 11:50 AM
#4875
Rennlist Member
I would hope that they would have a $10k premium on the GTS not only for the initial sticker price but also for the uncommonness of the car. I don't think in the past year I have seen one 997.2 GTS on the road, but I have definitely seen some base Carrera's and Carrera S'. Either way, buy what you like. If you can afford the GTS and the overall combination of parts along with the wide body and center lock wheels means something to you, then go for it. If you were looking for a high optioned Carrera, whether that be a C2S, C4S or GTS, then go for that.
Last edited by LISsailor; 05-07-2019 at 01:31 PM.