Drove a brand new 991S and 997GTS
06-25-2012, 06:31 PM
#121
Nordschleife Master
Well, I'm not even close to a talented mechanic but on my GTS I can see and appreciate my power kitted engine in 5 seconds by pulling the lid release. I don't need a screw driver for that.
Do I ?????
+1 to the statements of Palmbeacher and USMC-DS1. They mirror my thoughts and opinions and clearly many others here.
Do I ?????
+1 to the statements of Palmbeacher and USMC-DS1. They mirror my thoughts and opinions and clearly many others here.
06-25-2012, 06:50 PM
#122
Drifting
But to each his own. I suppose I'm a bit off because I did not find the plug and coil change all that challenging... I'm pretty confident I can do it in 1.5-2 hrs next time. The toughest part was getting my torque wrench in there to set the plugs properly. Aesthetically aligning the front or rear of a car... always a PITA. Not having to remove the rear on a 997 to replace the air filter just went from ho-hum SOP to... MY God those old 997 Porsche engineers were just brilliant - a step closer to da Vinci himself! To access the airbox you just pop the rear compartment... those master engineers were well beyond their time to have conceived of such a simple yet effective concept. How is this possible with such ancient technology. Must be alien in nature.
Come on... don't you think they kinda blew it on this one. I'll admit there are a few things I like about the 991: it's performance capabilities and the weight savings... at it's heart it wants to make Ferdinand proud. The rest you can keep. My next 911 will be a 993 or perhaps the 992(?) if they change course.
Last edited by USMC_DS1; 06-25-2012 at 07:33 PM.
06-26-2012, 12:00 PM
#123
Rennlist Member
That's what I thought, you actually DO NOT OWN either! That's the EXACT definition of a troll! You don't own either, but are most vocal about both and pretend to know more about 997 and 991 than actual owners, who use it daily, track their cars, maintain their cars, and mod their cars.
Maybe go buy one of these cars and use it daily and report on your impressions, till then, your opinion has absolutely zero value.
06-26-2012, 03:38 PM
#125
Advanced
Seriously? since you've *been in one* makes you an expert?
That's what I thought, you actually DO NOT OWN either! That's the EXACT definition of a troll! You don't own either, but are most vocal about both and pretend to know more about 997 and 991 than actual owners, who use it daily, track their cars, maintain their cars, and mod their cars.
Maybe go buy one of these cars and use it daily and report on your impressions, till then, your opinion has absolutely zero value.
That's what I thought, you actually DO NOT OWN either! That's the EXACT definition of a troll! You don't own either, but are most vocal about both and pretend to know more about 997 and 991 than actual owners, who use it daily, track their cars, maintain their cars, and mod their cars.
Maybe go buy one of these cars and use it daily and report on your impressions, till then, your opinion has absolutely zero value.
+1
06-26-2012, 04:39 PM
#126
Quadcammer +1 rest 0 , this guy has suceeded in getting emotion of almost everyone here stirred. He is reading this thread with a big grin on his face. Im smiling at all these reactions.
06-27-2012, 01:02 AM
#127
Intermediate
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06-27-2012, 09:11 AM
#129
Rennlist Member
The 991 is a fine car, although the looks are a little watered down for my taste. I see the comparison as follows:
993 = CJ7 (basic, rude purposeful)
996 = square headlight YJ Wrangler (more modern and refined, but estectly off)
997 = TJ Wrangler (Best of the breed, last of the real enthusiasts models)
991 = JK Wrangler (Modern and refined, but missing some of things that made it special)
993 = CJ7 (basic, rude purposeful)
996 = square headlight YJ Wrangler (more modern and refined, but estectly off)
997 = TJ Wrangler (Best of the breed, last of the real enthusiasts models)
991 = JK Wrangler (Modern and refined, but missing some of things that made it special)
06-27-2012, 01:48 PM
#130
Nordschleife Master
Well, now that Quad straighened us 997 owners out and GTS owners he needs to go over the 991 forum and straighten out the numerous 991 owners who have in large part agreed with our assessments. Oops
06-27-2012, 03:07 PM
#131
Race Director
Well, it is a fact that the 991 when equipped with manual gear lever forces the driver to adopt an awkward and uncomfortably high arm position, lest he crack his elbow on the Panamera/luxury-inspired console. That the reason is Porsche really would rather discourage anyone from buying the car equipped with a proper manual gearbox, and sell everyone an automatic, well, that's an opinion.
It is a fact that the handbrake, an item quite useful to starting a manual going uphill as well as making quick 360-turns, has been replaced with an electronic all-off-or-all-on pressbutton affair. That the reason is Porsche expects few if any people to buy a proper manual, and/or wants to be certain a soccer mom weighing all of six stone can fully activate the parking brake, well, that's an opinion.
It is a fact that they've aggressively isolated the cabin from sound and offer to pipe back in a hint of exhaust note. That the reason is Porsche presumes most buyers prefer the tomb-like atmosphere of a Jaguar Vandenplas but for the sake of occasionally reassuring themselves (or a passenger) of their continued virility, well, that's an opinion.
And, it is a fact the rear deck lid is adorned with large chrome-plated plastic lettering in a gauche and incongruous melange of both block and cursive, spelling out the make and model like a cinema marquis, and including the designation "911" which happens to be a misnomer. That the reason is to be certain the car is never mistaken for one of the several other European sport coupes whose styling cues the 991 shamelessly plagiarises, well, you guessed it, that's an opinion.
It is a fact that the handbrake, an item quite useful to starting a manual going uphill as well as making quick 360-turns, has been replaced with an electronic all-off-or-all-on pressbutton affair. That the reason is Porsche expects few if any people to buy a proper manual, and/or wants to be certain a soccer mom weighing all of six stone can fully activate the parking brake, well, that's an opinion.
It is a fact that they've aggressively isolated the cabin from sound and offer to pipe back in a hint of exhaust note. That the reason is Porsche presumes most buyers prefer the tomb-like atmosphere of a Jaguar Vandenplas but for the sake of occasionally reassuring themselves (or a passenger) of their continued virility, well, that's an opinion.
And, it is a fact the rear deck lid is adorned with large chrome-plated plastic lettering in a gauche and incongruous melange of both block and cursive, spelling out the make and model like a cinema marquis, and including the designation "911" which happens to be a misnomer. That the reason is to be certain the car is never mistaken for one of the several other European sport coupes whose styling cues the 991 shamelessly plagiarises, well, you guessed it, that's an opinion.
2. electronic parking brake. quick 360 degree turns? really? How many quick 360 degree turns have you done starsky? You get a couple j-turns in for good measure? GTFO.
As for starting uphill, pretty sure the 991 has hill assist, rendering the p.brake method useless.
3. Wait, quiet when you want it and sound when you want it? God dammit, I hate choices. You mean you don't hear the scream of the tires like in a 997? the horror
4. Do I like the badging on the back? No. Thats why there is a delete option. Does it harken back to early 911s...sure does. Keep it, get rid of it, don't care. The fact that this is what you're complaining about says it all.
Well, I'm not even close to a talented mechanic but on my GTS I can see and appreciate my power kitted engine in 5 seconds by pulling the lid release. I don't need a screw driver for that.
Do I ?????
+1 to the statements of Palmbeacher and USMC-DS1. They mirror my thoughts and opinions and clearly many others here.
Do I ?????
+1 to the statements of Palmbeacher and USMC-DS1. They mirror my thoughts and opinions and clearly many others here.
yawn.
The video does make it look easy enough to remove but what they did not show was how to install and how it looked after they slapped it back on... for us OCD types it has to align perfectly afterwards. And from prior experience with other cars(997, M3, z3, etc)... every time I've removed and put back on body panels/front/back ends it just looks a bit off so I end up spending hours getting it to fit just right, running to the dealer to replace broken plastic tabs, etc... my immediate response is what an unnecessary PITA compared to the 997. Not impossible or even difficult... just a PITA.
But to each his own. I suppose I'm a bit off because I did not find the plug and coil change all that challenging... I'm pretty confident I can do it in 1.5-2 hrs next time. The toughest part was getting my torque wrench in there to set the plugs properly. Aesthetically aligning the front or rear of a car... always a PITA. Not having to remove the rear on a 997 to replace the air filter just went from ho-hum SOP to... MY God those old 997 Porsche engineers were just brilliant - a step closer to da Vinci himself! To access the airbox you just pop the rear compartment... those master engineers were well beyond their time to have conceived of such a simple yet effective concept. How is this possible with such ancient technology. Must be alien in nature. Come on... don't you think they kinda blew it on this one.
I'll admit there are a few things I like about the 991: it's performance capabilities and the weight savings... at it's heart it wants to make Ferdinand proud. The rest you can keep. My next 911 will be a 993 or perhaps the 992(?) if they change course.
But to each his own. I suppose I'm a bit off because I did not find the plug and coil change all that challenging... I'm pretty confident I can do it in 1.5-2 hrs next time. The toughest part was getting my torque wrench in there to set the plugs properly. Aesthetically aligning the front or rear of a car... always a PITA. Not having to remove the rear on a 997 to replace the air filter just went from ho-hum SOP to... MY God those old 997 Porsche engineers were just brilliant - a step closer to da Vinci himself! To access the airbox you just pop the rear compartment... those master engineers were well beyond their time to have conceived of such a simple yet effective concept. How is this possible with such ancient technology. Must be alien in nature.
Come on... don't you think they kinda blew it on this one. I'll admit there are a few things I like about the 991: it's performance capabilities and the weight savings... at it's heart it wants to make Ferdinand proud. The rest you can keep. My next 911 will be a 993 or perhaps the 992(?) if they change course.
Seriously? since you've *been in one* makes you an expert?
That's what I thought, you actually DO NOT OWN either! That's the EXACT definition of a troll! You don't own either, but are most vocal about both and pretend to know more about 997 and 991 than actual owners, who use it daily, track their cars, maintain their cars, and mod their cars.
Maybe go buy one of these cars and use it daily and report on your impressions, till then, your opinion has absolutely zero value.
That's what I thought, you actually DO NOT OWN either! That's the EXACT definition of a troll! You don't own either, but are most vocal about both and pretend to know more about 997 and 991 than actual owners, who use it daily, track their cars, maintain their cars, and mod their cars.
Maybe go buy one of these cars and use it daily and report on your impressions, till then, your opinion has absolutely zero value.
My not owning either car allows me to look at the situation objectively. You, a 997 owner, is probably not as free from bias. In fact, I've called you out on it numerous times and you seem to disappear.
btw, what is your experience with the 991?
Oh dammit, I forgot, 997s are pure raw race cars. Oops, I hate when I forget such factual statements
God, plastic badging and bumper removal? Is this seriously all you clowns have?
06-27-2012, 03:31 PM
#132
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I can't recall such negativity against the 997 when it first came along. I never heard complaints the 997 looked or drove less like a Porsche than the 996. And those buying a 996 today admit virtually unanimously that they would have preferred a 997 if not for the cost.
Negativity against a new generation is certainly not unprecedented, but unlike some have asserted, it has not always been the case with every new generation. The reaction to the 991 is sounding a lot more like the initial reaction to the 996. And those opinions hold to this day, evidenced not only by comments on fan forums, but by the relative resale values of 964 and 993 models vs 996. My gut feeling is the 991 is the 996 redux.
Thus far I have seen exactly one 991 on the road here in S. Florida, which is probably second only to SoCal in terms of the number of Porsches one can see running about on any given day. When asked if they've been prepping a lot for sale, my service advisor who has been with Porsche since the mid-90s shook his head and said he's never seen such a slow launch.
06-27-2012, 03:41 PM
#133
Instructor
Interesting comment about So Cal.
During a recent drive from SF to LA to trade for the TurboS I saw zero P cars over 500 miles to LA.....one Porsche in LA (996)....and one on the 500 mile return (Cayman).... till I got to Carmel and Nor Cal where the Porsches came out of the woodwork!
A trip to SoCal used to be replete with Porsche's, Ferraris. Lambo's, Astons and all other sorts of cars on the roads. Not anymore. I think those cars are off lease and the economy is such that most are driving cars that blend into the "background" of what most people drive.
Just my observations.....
During a recent drive from SF to LA to trade for the TurboS I saw zero P cars over 500 miles to LA.....one Porsche in LA (996)....and one on the 500 mile return (Cayman).... till I got to Carmel and Nor Cal where the Porsches came out of the woodwork!
A trip to SoCal used to be replete with Porsche's, Ferraris. Lambo's, Astons and all other sorts of cars on the roads. Not anymore. I think those cars are off lease and the economy is such that most are driving cars that blend into the "background" of what most people drive.
Just my observations.....
06-27-2012, 04:23 PM
#134
Nordschleife Master
Mr. Quad: Yes, believe it or not I do get enjoyment in being able to see and access my engine compartment by just pulling up the rear deck lid. Call me weird but I do like being able to see the engine and manifold especially with the separate runners all in plain view. But hey, your talking to a guy that loves looking at engines. Strange fetish. I know. Humor me on this one.
I never said 991 owners don't like their cars. I like the car. I can see and appreciate the improvements. However, if you look and read THEIR assessments including the negative you will see many of their comments mirror the criticisms we have and mirror our assessments comparing the two cars. Moreover a number of Porsche mags have also noted and voiced some of the observations made by us "clowns". Its funny how much knowledge you profess to have on these two 911 variants having never owned either and having bummed a ride in a 991.
Perhaps if you owned a 997 or 997GTS and DROVE a 991 (even for a short test drive) your vociforious and cirlocutious posts might hold more credibility. You seem to be drawn like a moth to a flame to this subject despite your lack of personal experience or ownership of either. Very strange.
I never said 991 owners don't like their cars. I like the car. I can see and appreciate the improvements. However, if you look and read THEIR assessments including the negative you will see many of their comments mirror the criticisms we have and mirror our assessments comparing the two cars. Moreover a number of Porsche mags have also noted and voiced some of the observations made by us "clowns". Its funny how much knowledge you profess to have on these two 911 variants having never owned either and having bummed a ride in a 991.
Perhaps if you owned a 997 or 997GTS and DROVE a 991 (even for a short test drive) your vociforious and cirlocutious posts might hold more credibility. You seem to be drawn like a moth to a flame to this subject despite your lack of personal experience or ownership of either. Very strange.
06-27-2012, 04:45 PM
#135
Race Director
thats because 997 owners have ***** envy over the newer and better car, and hence come up with utter nonsense to claim its crappy.
happened since day one...doesn't make it any less pathetic. Seeing it from an outside perspective is truly revolting, hence I'm calling you all out on it.
happened since day one...doesn't make it any less pathetic. Seeing it from an outside perspective is truly revolting, hence I'm calling you all out on it.